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Is Chinese going to be the lingua franca? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Rikyu-san Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5529 days ago 213 posts - 413 votes  Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, French | Message 145 of 249 17 November 2009 at 12:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here is a short article (in Danish) about the seven deadly sins turned into virtues:
http://www.ruc-pastor.dk/De_7_doedssynder_-_oplaeg_ved_bisko p_Jan.43.0.html I don't know if the text makes sense to you with a google-like translation. Here are a few highlights in case such a translation turns into utter nonsense: Title: "Bishop of Roskilde Jan Lindhardt tells the story of the turn of the 7 deadly sins from middle age sins into late-modern virtues" "Deadly sins - what is that? Well, we may not even know anymore what "sin" is so the term deadly sin are perhaps located further out in the periphery of the records of our archeology of knowledge. Today the idea of sin is for most people an expression of an outdated outlook on life but it was taken very seriously by people in the Middle Ages.. ... At that time it was a serious crime to commit an offence against the rules that upheld the community. Therefore it is not at all strange that these 7 are emphasised for if you look more closely, one discovers that they all have the capacity to destroy the social sphere - destroy the community. That was in any event the view in the Middle Ages. Pride set the individual apart at the expense of others. Greed can lead to much for one or just a few and too little to the many. Similar consequences can be inferred from desire, gluttony, envy. But today, according to Lindhardt, these concepts have become virtues because we no longer live in a society where the consideration for others is the cornerstone. Today we live in a world where the rights of the individual is center stage - the rights of the individual are inviolable and as a result a competitive and winner mentality have been given pride of place. What used to be called greed and avariciousness is now diligence, initiatve, industriousness, profits. Personal gain is the real focal point of liberal economic theory." Once again, think about Confucian Capitalism as a different value system as the focal point for a possible new type of economic exchange. Edited by Rikyu-san on 17 November 2009 at 12:43am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Rikyu-san Diglot Senior Member Denmark Joined 5529 days ago 213 posts - 413 votes Speaks: Danish*, English Studies: German, French | Message 146 of 249 17 November 2009 at 12:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here is an example from Korea:
Koren model triumphs over West: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KK17Dg01.html I know only very little about Korean affairs but I find the article enlightening. I would probably rather have the Confucian Capitalism of the East than the Confused Capitalism of the West. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5839 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 147 of 249 17 November 2009 at 1:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This is turning into an interesting philosophical discussion, greatly enhanced by peoples' knowledge of philosophies from across the world. Thanks for the links Rikyu.
I agree with the observations that have been touched on: General moral decay of the West; excessive consumerism and shallow hedonistic, self-centred values of the majority. Something will have to give though: The world can't support a Western lifestyle for the majority of its population - yet that seems to be exactly what people in the new economies want. Plus, we in the West have already managed to pollute the world, and use up a lot of the existing oil. An gigantic energy crisis seems likely within our lifetimes. In order to solve all problems that the world faces, awareness, objective info and clear lines of communication will be important. I think a common world language is needed/inevitable. I definitely don't support English in that role but right now it's the most likely candidate. Where that will leave the existing languages and cultures in the long run remains to be seen. I'd hate to see them sacrficed. Edited by cordelia0507 on 17 November 2009 at 2:23am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6051 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 148 of 249 17 November 2009 at 6:11am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, but he/she said "devolution", implying a process. A shadow doesn't move fast enough to see it move. I think it is actually a non-culture. Why? Because one may think of culture as a set of symbols that communicate values to members of a group and form cohesiveness. It is a communication method. Cohesiveness as a given for a culture to exist. Right now what we are seeing is a set of symbols that do not have the purpose of communication, and do not form cohesiveness (necessary for a culture), but divisiveness and hyper-individualism that is inherent in post-modern capitalism. These sets of symbols are more like tools than anything else. Tools to provide people with instantaneous stimulus (which fractures social space as well as physical space into individual units). English I feel is being sucked into this tool system for the purpose of spreading this paradigm. Something global must necessarily lose a uniqueness to a local point or people in physical space, as well as it's importance. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ecroix Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 6157 days ago 9 posts - 15 votes Speaks: Malay, Hokkien, English*, Indonesian Studies: French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 149 of 249 24 November 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well apparently the Chinese doesn't really care whether Mandarin dethrones English as the lingua france or
not; at least not when they are happily having serious competitions like the "CCTV CUP English Speaking Contest". Spend anytime watching Chinese TV programs in China (which I did) and you'll bound to come across programs such as this: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTYwMDQ3NzY=.html Can you imagine the "BBC Cup Mandarin Speaking Contest" on TV? Mandarin is too intertwined with Chinese civilization to be neutral enough to be used as a lingua franca. And the CHinese know that. Realistically, the Japanese nor the Francophone nor Anglophone countries will never give in and adopt Mandarin as lingua franca, no matter how powerful China gets. English on the other hand is currently the world's mongrel of a language of choice simply because it belongs to no culture in particular right now. One cannot accurately say English belongs to England or America, just as one cannot say it belongs to SIngaporeans or Indians or Jamaicans. It doesn't really belong to anyone. The strength of English as a lingua franca is that it's not policed liked Japanese, Chinese and French; thus there is less barriers to adoption. I'm totally not interested in the Mandarin vs English debate. And I'm not advocating that English be made the world's lingua franca nor is it superior. But at this point in the evolution of human speech, English's promiscuity; it's willingness to absorb elements of other languages, makes it a natural candidate. Edited by ecroix on 24 November 2009 at 12:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5522 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 151 of 249 24 November 2009 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I can, but it would be different than the Chinese counterpart. Not many people can relate to the contestants or their skills.
This is of course completely irrelevant. Latin started out as the local dialect in a small village in Italy. English used to be the language of a tiny people on a remote island. German was only spoken by a band of barbarians. Everyone agrees that English is much closer to being a global lingua franca AT THE MOMENT, but Mandarin has already expanded from being the dialect of a tribe to the lingua franca in a country of over a billion people from hundreds of tribes and ethnicities. In fact, this has happened in roughly the same time it took English. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 6769 days ago 2282 posts - 2814 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 152 of 249 24 November 2009 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Japanese culture has deep historical connections with Chinese, and there is certainly no cultural aversion to it. Mandarin is rapidly catching up with English in the Japanese business world. Companies pay for employees' Chinese lessons, and job search sites all have a field asking about your Mandarin skills. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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