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Renaming the cities of other countries... | ||
Tags: Names | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4715 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 145 of 192 25 September 2012 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I answered you seriously.
For the record, the 2 times Anglophones will come across a name like that (an Irish name no less, so there is bound to be someone on hand who can explain the pronunciation), they'll ask or look it up, or, if they're lazy, mangle it - and given you just mentioned an Irish name, notable for its complex orthography, I doubt the Spanish, French, Armenians, Greeks, Russians, or Hindustanis would be any better. They'll ask. You know, what we all do when we come across something unfamiliar. Or we look it up. Or we pronounce it the best we can. Edited by tarvos on 25 September 2012 at 4:54pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5064 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 146 of 192 25 September 2012 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
No. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4715 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 147 of 192 25 September 2012 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, I did. I don't /take/ you seriously, but I don't do that anyway. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5064 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 148 of 192 25 September 2012 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
No. In Russian I'll write Мырян Ник Аулывь (with stresses, I failed to insert them here), and everyone would be able to pronounce it. Armenians, Hindustanis, Lithuanians and many others will do it in a similar way. The complexity of the original orthography doesn't matter. The name is pronounced regularily in Irish. But even if the original orthography is totally phonetic, it does not help. And how can those who know find out the pronunciation without refering to the Irish language? Edited by Марк on 25 September 2012 at 5:09pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4715 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 149 of 192 25 September 2012 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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They can't because it's written in Irish!
Мырян Ник Аулывь - this assumes you are familiar with Irish!!!! But nobody except Irish people and the few students of Irish will be familiar with Irish! So your example is poorly chosen. If they had known Irish they would have pronounced it as in Irish, and if it was used in an English document in Ireland they would write it like that? If it was a really common word, like a capital, then there would be an accepted English pronunciation and people would use an accepted English pronunciation. Since you ensured the example was extremely obscure, they would have no recourse but to resort to Irish anyway... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5064 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 150 of 192 25 September 2012 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
No. It assumes I saw it somewhere written. There must be a single Russian who knows Irish, he would write it and any other russian will pronounce in the same way. Why do they resort to the Irish language but do not do the same with other languages? even if you know the original language and the way it is written in English, you can't predict the English pronunciation. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4715 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 151 of 192 25 September 2012 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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But you don't want to, because it is an Irish name, uncommon in the English language,
so you use the Irish pronunciation. You're not going to transcribe the name into English, it's in Latin letters as it is. There is no need to write the name in English for the 1 time you come across an Irish name. There is always context, there's always circumstances under which you encounter a new word, and there's always a situation. You can't just draw a conclusion like that because English orthography is irregular, and their accepted pronunciations of foreign capitals and countries does not coincide with the original one, they won't also do so if they're faced with an obscure Irish name (and if that is their custom, then who, frankly, gives a flying dingo's kidney?) Flexibility, use it 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5064 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 152 of 192 25 September 2012 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What for do they transcribe foreign names into the English alphabet, if it doesn't help
them to read them out loud? In many languages everything is rewritten according to the pronunciation rules regardless of the original alphabet. It concerns all the languages, not only Irish. Why do I have to use Irish pronunciation for Irish words and some unknown, random pronunciation to all the other languages? For example, I heard the name Milošević, pronounced Milosevich. How will I find out that sh will become s, but ch remains? Edited by Марк on 25 September 2012 at 5:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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