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Does international language work? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6016 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 25 of 91 14 January 2010 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
There is an axiom held as true by most language learners: Learning a third language is easier than learning a second language. So it follows that learning another language after Esperanto is easier than learning that same language without having studied any other language. Esperanto is nothing special in that respect. The reason Esperanto gets special note is that its structure is comparatively simple and regular, making it quicker to learn. The point of dispute is not whether Esperanto makes learning another language easier, it's whether the time taken to learn Esperanto is greater or less than the amount of time it takes to subsequently learn the genuine target language. If spending 1 year learning Esperanto takes 1 year off your time to learn (for example) French, you arguably gain nothing. If it only takes 6 months off, you "lose" half a year. On the other hand, if it takes 18 months off, you gain half a year. But again, this is nothing special to Esperanto -- there are other conlangs which are said to be even easier and quicker to learn. Furthermore, this is talking about absolute beginners -- is there any benefit for someone who is already at an advanced level in another language? I'm not convinced. Armbands may help kids learn to swim, but Ian Thorpe won't become a better swimmer if he starts wearing them.... 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5590 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 26 of 91 14 January 2010 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Well said Cainntear. As far as I'm concerned, Esperanto might be another notch in my language belt :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| canada38 Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5500 days ago 304 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Japanese | Message 27 of 91 14 January 2010 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Thank-you for elaborating, that is exactly what I was thinking, but I gave a very vague post. Your last question is quite intriguing. I agree with your opinion that Esperanto likely won't help a seasoned language learner to study a new language, and it will only be of benefit to perhaps a beginner learning a third language after Esperanto. One exception is that I'm certain studying Esperanto would aide a native Japanese speaker in a later study of most several European tongues, but in this regard Esperanto is not unique. I likely does not teach the workings of a language nor the fundamentals of European languages better than most other languages of the same group do. Does anyone here know more about if Esperanto is beneficial to the polyglot who wants to study many languages? (Except for the fact that Esperanto itself adds one more language to your collection!) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| datsunking1 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5590 days ago 1014 posts - 1533 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Russian, Dutch, French | Message 28 of 91 15 January 2010 at 2:25am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Would it be beneficial? Why not? As you and I have both said, it's another one to "add to the collection." I'm not sure if I can PROVE if it would be beneficial, but as far as I'm concerned, if I learned to speak esperanto fluently in around a year, I would be VERY pleased with myself and I would be very excited to tackle another language. I would feel much more ambitious and ready to take on the world. (Of languages that is ;)) I mean the language is rather simple, but being able to converse freely in such a short amount of time studying would really get me excited and spike a fire in me, so to speak. All in All, it certainly CAN'T hurt in my opinion :) -Jordan 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| zooplah Diglot Senior Member United States zooplah.farvista.net Joined 6373 days ago 100 posts - 116 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: German | Message 29 of 91 21 January 2010 at 12:02am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Ido was just Esperanto made closer to French (and thus not Esperanto anymore). Interlingua was never designed as an international language; it was just made for passive reading by people who already knew a Romance language. That really only leaves Esperanto. Actually, many blame the relative failure on the Ido schism; it was going fairly well before that, with Volapük, then Idiom Neutral, and finally, Esperanto, which has retained the largest user base of any conlang.
Thy say that Esperanto is most popular in Eastern Asia and least popular in North America. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| zooplah Diglot Senior Member United States zooplah.farvista.net Joined 6373 days ago 100 posts - 116 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: German | Message 30 of 91 21 January 2010 at 12:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Not at the time Volapük, Esperanto, and Ido were created. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| zooplah Diglot Senior Member United States zooplah.farvista.net Joined 6373 days ago 100 posts - 116 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: German | Message 31 of 91 21 January 2010 at 12:15am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yes, they are. They don't belong to any group, so they're neutral.
Are you saying that Esperanto is based on Polish and Russian? I'd like to see a scientific theory to back that one up.
Of course they do. There was a report on CRI (Ĉina Radio Internacia) about Chinese children quickly picking up Esperanto. There have been similar anecdotes by adults who learned it quickly where they failed in learning Indo-European languages. Really, you're parroting refuted nonsense and I'm parroting the refutations. The late Claude Piron had a couple articles about ways in which Esperanto was structurally more similar to Chinese than to English and French.
An a priori language (like Solresol)? Good luck getting that one to stick. In fact, most conlangers who disapprove of Esperanto do so because it's a schematic a posteriori language (like Volapük was) instead of a naturalistic a posteriori language (like Occidental, Interlingua, Novial, etc.). Edited by zooplah on 22 January 2010 at 8:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| zooplah Diglot Senior Member United States zooplah.farvista.net Joined 6373 days ago 100 posts - 116 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: German | Message 32 of 91 21 January 2010 at 12:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
No kidding! What is special is that you can learn the rules of grammar without learning the exceptions.
Such as? Let's see: Volapük - Four cases (five in the reform), thousands of conjugated forms (it's so complex and involved that Schleyer had to highlight the root of the verb in the learning material) Ido - Esperanto, only with double the vocabulary, less flexible syntax, ... Interlingua - three conjugations, no standardized pronunciation, implied accents, no rules for derivation, the "de is used for everything" problem, ... Lojban - Experimental logical language trying to alter human perceptions. I know there are a lot more, but none are easier than Esperanto, unless you already know French, Italian or Spanish (and then, I suppose, Ido and Interlingua would be dead simple, but not so much for the rest of us). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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