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Reforms that you want to see in languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5855 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes  Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 17 of 72 06 April 2010 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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To reform English spelling, can we follow the example of German spelling reform?
Before 1901, German spelling was not phonetic with all the slience letters. After 1901, The Staatliche Orthographie-Konferenz in Berlin makes official the German spelling rules that remained in force until August 1, 1998. 1 July 1996: Following ten years of work by an expert commission, a declaration approving the new spelling rules is signed in Vienna by representatives from Austria, Germany, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, and various other nations with German-speaking minorities. For more info on the German spelling reform: http://german.about.com/library/blreform.htm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 18 of 72 06 April 2010 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | ||
As a descriptivist, I'd let all languages be and allow for changes to happen in their own way without imposition "from above". :-P In a fantasy world, I would propose the following: - Belorussian, BCMS/SC, Bulgarian, Russian, Rusyn (eastern forms), Slovenian, Ukrainian 1a) Either allow for spelling outside specialized environments to reflect placement of stress AND/OR any vowel reduction... 1b) OR make stress become fixed as in Czech, Macedonian, Polish, Rusyn (western forms), Slovak, and Sorbian - BCMS/SC, Slovenian 1) Allow for spelling outside specialized environments to reflect distinctions in pitch-accent - Czech, Polish, Slovak 1) set the genitive singular ending as "-a" for only masculine animate nouns, and "-u" for all other masculine nouns. All masculine beings use "-a" in genitive in singular while there is a tendency for inanimate masculine nouns to use "-u" in genitive singular. "dog" (nom.); "from the dog" (gen.) pes; od psA (Czech, Slovak) pies; od psA (Polish) "anger" (nom.); "out of anger" (gen.) hněv; z hněvU (Czech) gniew; z gniewU (Polish) hnev; z hnevU (Slovak) ...but the genitive ending "-a" associated with masculine beings is codified for some inanimate masculine nouns, which one would think should take "-u". ex. chléb "bread" (nom.), Některé druhy chlebA... "Some types of bread..." (gen.) (Czech) papieros "cigarette" (nom.); Potrzebuję papierosA "I need a cigarette" (gen.) (Polish) les "forest" (nom.); Idem do lesA "I am going into the forest" (gen.) (Slovak) - Estonian 1) Allow for spelling to clearly distinguish short, long and overly-long syllables. 2) Settle on one set of endings or forms for each of the genitive singular, partitive singular, and partitive plural - Finnish 1) Apply levelling to consonant gradation so that each of k, p and t (i.e. the single stops) "gradates" in the same way. In modern Finnish, the single stops can weaken into at least two ways, with k having the most varied outcomes (8 outcomes). All outcomes can be determined using an elaborate set of rules or conditions. Less elaboration could apply levelling to these principles and likely accelerate a foreigner's assimilation of gradation. - French, German 1) If grammatical gender must be retained, then change endings so that they allow for grammatical gender to be determined on sight in most instances by the ending of the word rather than the addition of the definite article (i.e. follow a similarly mechanistic principle of gender determination as in the Slavonic languages). "Exceptions" may be retained for words denoting beings with natural gender. See the following for attempts at drawing up rules of thumb (laced with many caveats or exceptions) for learning how a learner can determine gender in unfamiliar French or German words: french.about.com/od/grammar/a/genderpatterns.htm german.about.com/library/weekly/aa042098.htm - Hungarian 1) Allow for j and ly to be merged in spelling (they're now pronounced identically - both like "y" in "yes") - Polish 1) allow for ó and u to be merged in spelling (they're now pronounced identically - both like "oo" in "boot") 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5855 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 19 of 72 06 April 2010 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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For Russian:
Please put back the alphabets that represented unstressed vowels! Even natives have problem on whether to spell я, е, or и in an unstressed position. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| goosefrabbas Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 6368 days ago 393 posts - 475 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German, Italian Personal Language Map | Message 20 of 72 06 April 2010 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Who decides, in English's case, what would change?
If the reforms would make the spelling phonetic, American English and British English wouldn't look the same on paper. Would each of the many regional dialects have to create their own orthography changes? And if they would use already-existing letters, I'm sure that there would be overlap in spelling across different dialects. For example, I'm from the South. We pronounce "room" like "rum". If we'd use the SoundSpel reforms, I'd spell "room" as "rum" while most others would continue using "room". If a Northerner came to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and stayed in a hotel, what if the hotel asked "How was the rum?" He might think about the alcohol because, well, it's Mardi Gras... I think there'd be quite a bit of confusion. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| boon Diglot Groupie Ireland Joined 6159 days ago 91 posts - 177 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: German, Mandarin, Latin | Message 22 of 72 06 April 2010 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I made a quick attempt at a spelling reform for English a couple of years ago. Here's the Lord's Prayer:
owr faadher, hoo aart in heavven, halloud bee dhai naym. dhai kingdem kum, dhai wil bee dun, on erth az it iz in heaven. giv us dhis day owr daylee bread and forgiv us owr tresspesiz, az wee forgiv dhohz hoo tresspes egeannst us. delivver us not inntoo temptayyshen but delivver us from eevel aamenn. I find myself thinking in a Dutch accent when I read over that.. I don't think a reform is impossible. A lot of compromise would be necessary, but that shouldn't matter too much. Spanish orthography isn't perfect, but it almost is! The (arguable) faults of Spanish include: z, s, c sound the same in most accents h is silent ll, y represent ths same sound final s can be silent in some accents Spanish-speakers seem to get on pretty well regardless. These are only really faults in the sense that you sometimes don't know how to spell a word that you hear. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dantalian Diglot Senior Member Bouvet Island Joined 5682 days ago 125 posts - 156 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 23 of 72 06 April 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | ||
Not for anything! Any changes in spelling inevitably result in difficulty in understanding of the former cultural heritage for the next generations. I'd rather return the prerevolutionary Russian orthography with all its complications than think of any further simplification .:)) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5430 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 24 of 72 06 April 2010 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Most of the posts have been concerned with spelling reform to better reflect the phonological realities. I would like to weigh in with some grammatical reforms in French,
First of all, let's abolish the grammatical gender system. All nouns would become LE or LA nouns. Second, drop the gender agreement syntax rule. This actually flows from the first rule. Third, simplify the verb system by eliminating many irregularities and exceptions. Four, eliminate the subjunctive mood. Its usefulness is at best questionable, and it complicates things for nothing. I'll be the first to admit that none of these things will happen in my lifetime, but you never know. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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