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Germanic Pride. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| robsolete Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5385 days ago 191 posts - 428 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 65 of 90 10 April 2010 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||
Oh, if only we could be like all those happy, smiling people in those UNICEF ads. Yes, access to education, medical care, and free time are definitely things that inhibit human happiness! It's such a shame that all these developing countries aren't content with their folksy, charming happiness and are massively mobilizing their populations over such silly little problems as literacy, infant mortality, and famine. If only they knew how blissful their ignorance is. . . Give. Me. A. Break. You're treating people in the "third world" (The Cold War called, it wants its terminology back) as children. They're not. They're adults who know a lot about hard work and depression, much more so than you or I. And they're working and fighting their asses off, day in and day out, so that their children won't have to live like they did. And I don't see how worrying about things like food, shelter, and basic access to medical care is making them happier. Do they have the detached, privileged ennui of many Westerners? Probably not. But depression exists in many forms. When I was in my idyllic village in rural India, full of smiling children, mango trees, and rice paddies, everyone smiled at you and was full of chattiness and life when you saw them in public. But, when the monsoon faltered and the crops were down, that chatty public zest didn't stop the farmer down the road from committing suicide out of shame and desperation because he couldn't provide for his family. What else are you going to call that but depression? Different cultures exhibit things very differently, but emotions are emotions. To say that the lives of people in the developing world are too "nasty, brutish, and short" to experience the full range of human emotions is amazingly laughable. The roots of that farmer's depression wasn't some sort of existential angst, but it was depression nonetheless, a very tangible and communitarian sense of shame and self-loathing due to ones economic conditions. Heck, even read Orhan Pamuk's "Istanbul." He spends a lot of time talking about a Turkish term, "huzun," which refers to a general sense of loss and melancholy that he feels defines the tone of modern Istanbul as it sits in the ruins of Ottoman glory. There are plenty of dirt-poor, uneducated Turks out there--do they not have access to the emotion that they coined a word for? I can't speak for the rural poor of the world, but my guess after a few months of living in a village was that very often that charming, happy, actively-engaged public persona and hospitality is genuine, but that it also is something of a performance and/or escape from the inner concerns of living a harsh life. Everyone has to save face to keep the community going, and when you have 12 hours of back-breaking labor (if you're lucky enough to get it) ahead of you every day, you'll jump on any opportunity to laugh or smile. It's a sort of fatalism--life is going to be tough, so wring out as much happiness as you can. It's a fantastic coping mechanism and an admirable thing. But it's not a choice that people make--it's a survival tool. The other option is to hang yourself, turn into an alcoholic, or take it out violently on your family (which, having worked in a school, I noticed plenty of but couldn't necessarily do much about at the time). These things all do happen in these idyllic communities full of "happy poor people," with more frequency than you would think. Listen, I get sick of the selfish, over-medicated, whiny ennui of Western navel-gazing. I get it. But to imply that free time, sanitation, health care, literacy, and an expanded worldview somehow make you less depressed than others is absolutely absurd. Why else would the 60% of the people in the world *without* access to these things be trying so hard to *attain* them? 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5403 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 66 of 90 10 April 2010 at 1:05am | IP Logged | ||
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I feel English is more of a Romance language going slightly towards Celtic than Germanic. At least English people strike me more as Celts than as Germanic people. So Celts who speak a Romanized Germanic language? I guess that's how I see it.
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| Paskwc Pentaglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5677 days ago 450 posts - 624 votes Speaks: Hindi, Urdu*, Arabic (Levantine), French, English Studies: Persian, Spanish | Message 67 of 90 10 April 2010 at 2:07am | IP Logged | ||
I think the word "selfish" has very negative connotations that should not be projected onto most people, regardless of whether they are "selfish" or not. I also think it's unfair to almost wholly condemn anyone who doesn't have a child (can't having children also be seen as an act of "selfishness"?). Having a child is a major commitment that not everybody is prepared for (money-wise, time-wise, personality-wise, etc.). I know many people who desperately want children but are simply unable to afford them. These people are hardly living vicariously or anything of the sort. At the same time, not wanting or planning to have children isn't selfish either. Personally, I realize I'll never be able to be the type of parent I'd wish for my children to have. If my decision is guided by anything, it is the welfare of any possible children I might sire, not that of myself. Also, I can personally guarantee that the developing world is rife with depression. It might not be diagnosed, due to a lack of access to mental health systems, but it's certainly there. They might not know they're depressed, but they certainly know they are dissatisfied and unhappy with their environment. Edited by Paskwc on 10 April 2010 at 6:45am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| original501 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5639 days ago 23 posts - 24 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Portuguese Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 68 of 90 10 April 2010 at 2:21am | IP Logged | ||
There really are no similarities between American, and Central European cultures. Latin Europe does NOT have weaker economies: According to the CIA World Factbook, France's economy is at #5, Italy #7 and Spain #9, while Germany lies at #4, Sweden #22, and Austria #24. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomin al) Edited by original501 on 10 April 2010 at 2:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 69 of 90 10 April 2010 at 2:28am | IP Logged | ||
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Sure the developing world is full of suffering.
But doesn't it then strike you as a little bit self-centred to sit in a neated house, with your own car, fully fed and with a healthy bank balance and claim that you are depressed and have a hard life? Also, there are people in China (for example), South America and so on who actually rate themselves as happier than what successful people in the industrial world rate themselves at. This is a well known phenomenon. I don't know precisely why this is, but the articles I read suggest that they find joy in their families, religion or day-to-day events. Obviously I am not talking about starving people or people in extreme situations of hardship. Just about people who live simpler lives. For example Guatemalans, who rate themselves as the second happiest country on earth -- compare with The USA 27th. Yet, I guess that many Americans would feel near suicidal if they were suddenly reduced to a Guatemalan average standard of living. Many people who actually have what we would consider a hard life are able to find joy in very simple things. If queried about their general level of happiness, the rate it higher than many people who "have everything". But sure; feel free to see your own life as terrible suffering despite your relative prosperity; and likewise see all of the entire developing world as a complete dump, where peoples lives are hardly worth living. You are entitled to your view and I to mine. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Icaria909 Senior Member United States Joined 5591 days ago 201 posts - 346 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 70 of 90 10 April 2010 at 2:47am | IP Logged | ||
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This whole tyrade is off topic from the original thread's discussion.
I have Germanic roots, and I sympothyze wiu the original poster. Germans for hundreds of years have greatly contributed to the scientific and cultural advancements of Europe, so there is this rich history to draw upon when thinking of he language and it's people. Looking back on English only helps to reinforce this connection with German. Statistically, 38% of English is derived from Low Germanic roots, with 51% o English being of Latin or French origin. But the Germanic roots make up the core of Englishe's core vocabulary, the reason we have so many Latin derivatives is new terminology (think scientific terms and medical terminology). So English is connected to German and speaking it is a reminder of it's Germanic roots. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5696 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 71 of 90 10 April 2010 at 3:06am | IP Logged | ||
I agree with what Paskwc says about projecting negative connotations of "selfish" on people. Furthermore I don't think the word "selfish" should have those negative connotations in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing things for your own personal gratification. I daresay this is one of the main reasons many of us study languages in the first place. It certainly is for me! As for the first sufficient condition of unselfishness I will only say, that simply being (very) religious has never been a requirement nor guarantee for so-called unselfish or moral behavior. As for the second, many people claim, especially with resource contention and overpopulation, that having children is quite a selfish act in its own right. How is wanting your genetic material to outlive you in any way not selfish? I don't necessarily agree with these people, but clearly it is a complicated issue and not as black and white as was presented. To claim that only by living for other people (or deities) can one avoid these negative connotations is servile and degrading enough. But to further claim that it is only the very religious, the childbearing, or "very altruistic" cause devotee that can transcend all this is downright asinine. edit: misplaced comma Edited by egill on 10 April 2010 at 3:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Miznia Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5351 days ago 37 posts - 42 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Cantonese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese | Message 72 of 90 10 April 2010 at 3:25am | IP Logged | ||
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This is an odd notion of depression that is tied so closely to prosperity. I thought it was well established that you don't get happier the wealthier you are. So why would it be selfish or insincere to be depressed when you're wealthy? How are you supposed be pacified by something that doesn't make people happier?
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