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Esperanto’s benefit for language learners | ||
Tags: Esperanto | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5673 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 25 of 78 15 April 2010 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I am glad you brought this back to topic (and away from the religous wars). I spent a little over two months (one hour per day) learning Esperanto earlier this year. It got to the point where I felt I understood the grammar, and could hold simple conversations (and understand a lot more of them). The only missing part was continuing to add more vocabulary - and at that point I abandoned the language because I didn't notice any consequent benefit at all in either my ability or understanding of other languages. Quite the opposite was the case - it felt like it was fun for a while to study Esperanto, but it took time away from my study of my other languages and therefore had a slight negative effect. Did I give up too early? If I had stuck with it would I have found some benefit that I do not get by instead devoting that same time to direct study of my other languages? P.S.: I am not trying to rekindle any sparks of "religious war" here - just trying to see if I gave up prematurely and that benefits would have sprung forward if I had been less hasty to call it quits. Edited by Splog on 15 April 2010 at 2:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| daristani Senior Member United States Joined 7148 days ago 752 posts - 1661 votes Studies: Uzbek | Message 27 of 78 15 April 2010 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Blunderstein, I suspect that you and I have sufficiently divergent concepts of what constitutes a culture that further discussions on "Esperanto culture" would likely prove fruitless.
As for Cordelia's supposedly having claimed that all native English-speakers are "Esperanto-bashers" (your term, not hers), I never suggested she did. She did suggest that those "provoked by" Esperanto seemed to be native English-speakers, and I simply pointed out that in an English-language discussion forum, in which (I believe) native English-speakers predominate, it's only natural to find speakers of English speaking out on the issue, and indeed on both sides of it. I read her comment as suggesting the existence of an "English versus Esperanto" dynamic, which I don't think is very prevalent. Most speakers of English are simply indifferent to Esperanto, but then most speakers of other languages are indifferent to it as well. It may well be that, as speakers of the closest thing we've seen to date to an international language, speakers of English are even less inclined than others to see the attractions of learning a language like Esperanto, but I honestly don't know whether that's the case or not. Please note that, in our relentless drive for total world linguistic domination, we native English speakers (at least those of us on this discussion forum) do not oppose the learning of other languages, even those which (unlike Esperanto) in fact constitute competition for English, such as Spanish, French, or even (in the eyes of some) Chinese. Indeed, some of us endeavor mightily, with varying degrees of success, to learn these languages, just as some of us try to learn Esperanto. Certainly the English-speakers on this board are NOT trying to suppress any language, not even Esperanto. But it seems to me that, although there have been any number of heated debates on this site on all sorts of languages, it seems to be primarily the threads devoted to Esperanto that engender such emotions. If this is the case, then why? Why should there be such emotion around Esperanto (whether among English-speakers or others) when the same emotions don't seem to prevail in the cases of other languages? I've suggested, and some others have suggested as well, that there seems to be something in the attitudes of some Esperantists that triggers this reaction, and thus that it's not "Esperanto-bashing" ex nihilo, but rather a reaction to the overly aggressive way in which Esperanto is "marketed" by some of its enthusiasts. As for leaving the forum in "disgust", because of "intolerance", I would suggest you're being overly sensitive to the free expression of ideas. That said, the internet is a pretty big place, and although I haven't checked, I assume there are plenty of discussion sites for Esperantists where they can chat away with each other in peace, undisturbed by "Esperanto-bashers". Still, I hope neither you nor others leave because of divergent views on Esperanto, or indeed on other issues, but this is a decision for each of us to make on our own, just like the decision to learn -- or not to learn -- any given language. If Esperanto "works" for you, then great: you'll continue to enjoy it and get satisfaction from it, and that's what counts, regardless of what others think (or say) about it. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Blunderstein Triglot Pro Member Sweden schackhandeln.se Joined 5422 days ago 60 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Swedish*, EnglishC2, FrenchB2 Studies: German, Esperanto Personal Language Map | Message 29 of 78 15 April 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Me and several others demonstrated, over and over, in the thread "Esperanto opinions", what we mean by Esperanto culture. You and others ignored everything that was presented, and just kept on repeating your accusation that "Esperanto culture does not exist". The fact that some people have first-hand experience of this culture means nothing to you.
You claim that it is elitism when we tell you (from experience) that the Esperanto culture exists? Now that's pure nonsense. Of course I'm not claiming that Esperanto culture is on the same level as Swedish culture (or German, Hindi or Albanian culture). You know this, since I've explained it before in that other thread. I only told you that the Esperanto culture exists, and pointed out that it was offensive of outsiders to deny that. Still you keep on pretending that I hold Esperanto culture to be on the same level as Swedish culture. Again, for whoever is reading this: Esperanto culture exists, period. How big or deep or good it is, is beside the point. It's not arrogant to claim that you have a culture (which is what we Esperantists do). However, denying somebody else's culture, that is very arrogant. So, Tombstone, you gave me the answer that I expected. Of course one has to be prepared to listen to differing opinions on an Internet forum, but there are limits. How long would you keep on talking to someone who consistently insulted you, and refused to listen to anything you tried to explain to him? Eventually, you would (most likely) no longer feel that it was worth your effort to continue the discussion. I'm leaving this forum, because of the arrogance displayed by you and others on this forum. Who will you bully next? I'll check personal messages, no more.
No, you didn't. Here is another quote from this thread:
mrhenrik was probably the one who went furthest in critizing Cordelia. Finally:
Naturally, only the Esperantists are to be blamed... I suggest that you reread some of the posts critizing Esperanto, and the try to find threads were someone expresses the same kind of contempt for some other language and culture. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| dmaddock1 Senior Member United States Joined 5437 days ago 174 posts - 426 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Esperanto, Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 30 of 78 15 April 2010 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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As a young (in experience, not age) language learner take my opinions with a grain of salt, but here's what I've picked up about Esperanto since I've been on HTLAL:
1. The regularity appeals to me (I'm a software engineer) 1a. The regularity seems like it would make it easier to learn and what I've read bears this out. I'm studying ancient Greek now (and "studied" Spanish, Latin, and Russian in high school) and my experience is that the most frequently needed words are the most irregular and are often a distraction. 1b. Esperanto rules for compound words seem like they would make vocab acquisition easier, if only passive vocab. 1c. This ease probably helps when learning a natural language since many grammar concepts are then "old hat" and the learner has experience with thinking in an L2. 2. There is an interesting sub-culture akin to hippies, computer hackers, and the folks who followed Phish around in the 90's. (no disrespect) 2a. Said culture is generally "leftist" (ie. the language nerd equivalent of the above sub-cultures) 3. Practical benefit of application of the language is access to #2. 3a. I am a introverted literature-lover without any particular inclination to foster inter-language unity or meet people. So, the structural aspects really appeal to me. However, the culture, while interesting and valid, offers no real draw for me. Can some knowledgeable Esperantists speak to my point #3a? Most of the Esperanto literature I've found are translations. Is there a significant body of original material such that it offers a lifetime of enjoyment? And if so, is it rife with the general ideological sentiment so often alluded to? d. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| dmaddock1 Senior Member United States Joined 5437 days ago 174 posts - 426 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Esperanto, Latin, Ancient Greek | Message 32 of 78 15 April 2010 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
You need to study some Anthropology, my friend. Though I'd grant you the latitude to comment on the quality of such a culture. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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