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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 33 of 74 29 April 2010 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | ||
No need for that at all. Online participation is like language learning - sooner or later you get into trouble. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 34 of 74 29 April 2010 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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I am not going to touch on the social and economic issues here, but I would still insist that a car is a lethal weapon, and if you do not have the linguistic capability of shouldering all the responsibilities that this entails then you should not drive.
If the issue had been a different one, say that the question was whether everyone should have the right to an interpreter when receiving medical assistance, then my view would have been the opposite. But driving a car is not a human right, and safety should come first. Always. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5345 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 35 of 74 30 April 2010 at 1:10am | IP Logged | ||
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I think nations are correct in expecting immigrants to learn their language and assimilate into their culture, particularly when dealing with massive levels of immigration.
In the case of the U.S. though, it is coming to the point where the realization will have to be made that its identity has been irrevocably ruptured, and that it'll gradually converge to the norm of the rest of Latin America. The kind of will necessitated to prevent this belongs to the previous century, along with the United States itself. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 36 of 74 30 April 2010 at 2:06am | IP Logged | ||
There are certainly people who predict that the US is bound to become a 3rd world country, thereby "converging to the norm of the rest of Latin America". I guess we'll just have to wait and see. On the issue of Spanish alone, if some day Puerto Rico becomes a State, it may lead to a significant shift in mentality towards Spanish everywhere, since it would be the first time the United States would have an authentic Spanish-speaking State. Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2010 at 2:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5345 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 37 of 74 30 April 2010 at 2:23am | IP Logged | ||
At the same time though, one cannot expect Latin America to remain still. One can hope fresh contributions to a tired West to be contributed there. In my country for instance, we have a humanist philosopher, mathematician and atheist of immigrant parents know for his incorruptibility at the head a programme of sharply right-wing bent in vital issues ranging from taxes, spending, free trade and the war on terrorism, leading the polls for the presidential elections due next month. This is a synthesis (North) America would be utterly hopeless to produce. Edited by Juаn on 30 April 2010 at 2:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 38 of 74 30 April 2010 at 2:39am | IP Logged | ||
You bring up what is indeed an interesting subject. Europe and Canada are under severe demographic pressure due to low birth rates. The US is in somewhat better shape, but African-Americans and those of European descent don't quite reproduce here either; it is only due to high birth rates among Hispanics that the local population would remain stable or grow in the absence of immigration. The question then is whether Latin America can be culturally considered the West or not, for if it can, at least the Western civilization overall still has a chance. Given that it is an amalgam of Native American and European cultures, it is hard to know what the answer to that question is. On a less philosophical level, when one looks at various immigrant groups in the US, East and South Asians stand out by how much education is emphasized in their families. It appears to receive considerably less emphasis on average among Hispanics here, and this lingers beyond the first generation. That's ultimately the concern, whether Hispanics will develop a stronger culture of education for their children, or whether the country's average educational level will keep sliding, eventually threatening its first world status. One may also ask how things will play out in Latin American countries themselves. My personal view is that the future is unpredictable, but some people feel some aspects of it are clear enough already. Edited by frenkeld on 30 April 2010 at 2:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| skeeterses Senior Member United States angelfire.com/games5Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6618 days ago 302 posts - 356 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Korean, Spanish | Message 39 of 74 30 April 2010 at 4:00am | IP Logged | ||
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Without question, this commercial is nothing more than low ball pandering.
So the Governor wants to save money? For starters, cut off money for highway construction and try to use that money for public transportation and education. Second, I have heard that the Southern States used subsidies to entice Toyota into building car factories in those states. My suggestion would be to raise taxes on those factories to put Toyota in the same price range as GM and Chrysler. Third, I have read that the Southern states have higher obesity rates than the rest of the country. Again, cut off money for highways and roads and try to encourage walkable communities. Doing that will cut down on the obesity and help save the Southern states on health care costs. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| DaisyMaisy Senior Member United States Joined 5380 days ago 115 posts - 178 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish Studies: Swedish, Finnish | Message 40 of 74 30 April 2010 at 4:00am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm going to avoid getting into the politics (well, I'll try not to....)
It just strikes me as so ironic that when English is such a dominant language worldwide, we in the US worry about it being endangered by other languages! I think there are a lot of reasons why recent immigrants don't speak English. It's not easy to learn, especially when perhaps you have come here because your native county is impoverished/at war with itself/in dire straits, etc. Most people are scrambling with adapting to a new culture, trying to find work, working a lot, being exhausted, etc. Many immigrants who don't have advanced education naturally end up in lower wage jobs and work many hours just to get by. Should immigrants learn English? Sure, I agree with the idea that "if I moved to X, I would learn Xish". I think though, in reality "just learn English" is much easier said than done. Is it so bad to show some understanding and kindness? It's so much easier to lump immigrants as "them" and make broad statements about them. But each of them has a particular story and if you sat down with someone, as I once did with a young woman from Sierra Leone, and learned what she had gone through in her life...it makes it harder to generalize and condemn groups as a whole. I think it is a matter of thinking things through, trying to keep an open mind and challenging your assumptions. Obviously, it's much easier to buy into politcal rhetoric and stereotypes. Lastly, I think mentioning that the original language of the US was not English is an apt reminder that English is/was the language of the ruling class of immigrants who happened to come over to this continent within the last 400 years or so. I don't think remembering that fact is "some plot to make white guys feel guilty" (I am paraphrasing here). After all, California was occupied by Native American tribes first, then the Spanish and Mexico, then the US. So who is "more" American, those who came most recently? Or the people of Latino descent? It's ironic that some feel so threatened by Spanish being spoken so widely in California! I didn't quite manage to stay non-political, but I did try! 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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