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95% Fluency with 3000 Words Possible? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| RedBeard Senior Member United States atariage.com Joined 6037 days ago 126 posts - 182 votes  Speaks: Ancient Greek* Studies: French, German | Message 49 of 67 01 June 2010 at 12:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Regarding the (very interesting) discussion of Spoken Fluency versus Reading Comprehension above:
I recall a topic for spoken fluency where a member was in an Eastern European country (I think so, not too sure...) and had put together a small list of conversations "chunks". Small words and phrases that would help one string thoughts together in a conversation. Some possible examples: on the other hand, or to put it another way, additionally, one could argue that, because of that fact, what we meant was. I think the phrases were on a website and possibly even tranlated into several other languages for those of us who study a different language from that original. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6382 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 50 of 67 01 June 2010 at 1:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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A vocabulary of 8,000 to 9,000 word families is needed for easy comprehension of most written text and some 6,000 to 7,000 word families are needed for the spoken language. Some 3,000 word families would cover 95% of a basic text but for most purposes it would be a belaboured, difficult reading exercise. And this is just passive understanding. Being able to recognize 3,000 words is not the same as internalizing them or even being able to understand them passively in multitudes of very different contexts. This 95% coverage does not equal fluency. I'm pretty sure most members here cannot agree what constitutes fluency, and this is a part of the problem but your source suggests one can become fluent by being able to recognize a few words. This is not the case.
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5365 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 51 of 67 01 June 2010 at 1:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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I also remember seeing a rather extensive inventory of what are usually called "discourse markers". The most common in English is probably: "you know" which can be thrown in nearly anywhere. These are little phrases whose function is basically to help the conversation keep flowing. Similarly, there are "logical connectors" such as "therefore, hence, then". Two very common ones in Spanish that come to mind are "desde luego" and "por (lo) tanto". They would make for interesting subjects of threads if they have not been already exhausted.
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| rlf1810 Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6275 days ago 122 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English*, German, Slovak | Message 52 of 67 01 June 2010 at 2:15am | IP Logged | |||||
I think you're referring to the member of this forum who goes by splog, who resides in the Czech Republic. You can visit his helpful webiste here 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| RedBeard Senior Member United States atariage.com Joined 6037 days ago 126 posts - 182 votes Speaks: Ancient Greek* Studies: French, German | Message 53 of 67 05 June 2010 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes! Thanks! There are some real sharp cookies around this joint. Now we wonders (My Precious and I) if those phrases are transcribed into other languages somewhere. My target language skills are not good enough to try to translate them myself. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| RedBeard Senior Member United States atariage.com Joined 6037 days ago 126 posts - 182 votes Speaks: Ancient Greek* Studies: French, German | Message 54 of 67 05 June 2010 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Additionally, how does one get tested for his/her word count? Guess-timate based on one's main language textbook and its glossary? If so what about knowledge from other sources, like Grandma's stories or something? Word count may not be The Best Measure, but at least it's something I can understand.
Is there an online test? [I do recall BBC had a language page where you could (in several European languages) take a placement test. Any idea how accurate those are, anyway?] -RedBeard P.S. I did read this entire thread several days ago, but don't recall seeing 'how does one test for one's own word count'. If it is in there, please forgive me for re-asking. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| LiquidTester Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5725 days ago 28 posts - 32 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Czech | Message 55 of 67 14 June 2010 at 6:51am | IP Logged | |||||
Get a dictionary (not a bilingual one), pick ten random pages and get your known / unknown ratio. Extrapolate to the size of the dictionary. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rjtrudel Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6762 days ago 36 posts - 56 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 56 of 67 08 August 2010 at 2:42am | IP Logged | |||||
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@s_allard
What you are basically describing is an FSI pattern drill. They give you the structure and then a word and you say aloud the sentence. I think it is highly effective if somewhat boring. You drill and drill until its ingrained in the brain. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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