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TAC 2011 - Team Ohana – Le Cinéma Rex | ||
Tags: Dabbling | France | 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Immersion | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | English | German | French | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 113 of 198 15 May 2011 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
Te dejo algunas correcciones. "Ahora voy a avergonzarme por tratar de escribir algo en español." -> Ahora voy a hacer el ridículo tratando de escribir algo en español. "Los dos capítulos últimos de Berlitz eran mejores qué los dos primeros pero el libro es todaviá un poco aburrido." -> Los últimos dos capítulos de Berlitz fueron mejores que los dos primeros pero el libro todavía es/es todavía un poco aburrido. "Por otro lado, hay mucho del vocabulario al final de cada capítulo y las explicacíones de la gramática son bastante útiles." -> Por otro lado, hay mucho vocabulario al final de cada capítulo y las explicaciones de gramática/de la gramática son bastante útiles. "Creo qué voy a continuar con esto libro y acabarlo." -> Creo que voy a continuar con este libro y acabarlo/terminarlo. Como ves, concuerdo con la mayoría de las correcciones de ellasevia, con la excepción de la primera oración. Y como él dijo, en castellano no existe el artículo partitivo como en francés o Italiano. Hay que decir que para dos semanas de estudio tu texto es muy bueno. Algunas explicaciones sobre algunos de tus errores: Las reglas de acentuación son bastante sencillas en castellano, es decir que generalmente siguen la pronunciación, salvo algunas excepciones. Te cuento las reglas más generales: - Cuando hay un tilde sobre una letra en una palabra con más de una sílaba, esa sílaba lleva acento (énfasis). Una sílaba sin acento (énfasis) no puede llevar tilde. - Las palabras agudas (acentuadas como es-pa-ÑOL) llevan tilde cuando terminan en una vocal, en una N o en una S. Ejemplos: hablé, canción, además. Las palabras agudas terminadas en Y no llevan tilde (convoy). Cuando terminan en S precedida por otra consonante, no llevan tilde (robots). - Las palabras graves (acentuadas como pri-ME-ro) llevan tilde cuando terminan en una consonante que no sea N o S. Ejemplos: árbol, Héctor. Las palabras graves terminadas en Y llevan tilde. Cuando terminan en S precedida por otra consonante, llevan tilde (cómics). - Las palabras esdrújulas (acentuadas como ÚL-ti-mo) siempre llevan tilde. - Las palabras sobreesdrújulas (acentuadas como DÍ-ga-me-lo) siempre llevan tilde. - Cuando hay un tilde en una sílaba con un diptongo, el tilde va sobre la parte del diptongo que lleva la acentuación o énfasis. Ejemplo: canción (can-CIÓN), ya que el énfasis va en la O (la segunda parte del diptongo). - Los adverbios terminados en -MENTE llevan tilde en el lugar en donde lleva tilde el adjetivo original. Por ejemplo: cortésmente, súbitamente, rápidamente; pero: simplemente. - Los monosílabos (las palabras con una sola sílaba) por regla general no llevan tilde. La excepción a esto son los monosílabos con tilde diacrítico. Estas son las palabras que llevan tilde para diferenciarlas de otras palabras que se pronuncian igual, pero que tienen significado distinto. Por ejemplo, si/sí, el/él, tu/tú, mi/mí, te/té, se/sé, de/dé, mas/más. Entonces, tus errores de tildes: explicaciones -> la palabra se acentúa ex-pli-ca-CIO-nes (IO es diptongo), por lo tanto es grave terminada en S, y no lleva tilde. todavía -> la palabra se acentúa to-da-VÍ-a. Lleva tilde para indicar que 'vía' no es un diptongo sino dos sílabas. La manera en la que la escribiste (todaviá) indicaría una pronunciación to-da-VIÁ, que no es correcta. "Los últimos dos capítulos de Berlitz fueron mejores que los dos primeros" "Creo que voy a continuar con este libro" -> 'que' no debe llevar tilde en este caso; 'que/qué' es otro ejemplo de dos palabras diferenciadas por tilde diacrítico. Se escribe 'qué', con tilde, cuando la palabra tiene un sentido interrogativo (¿?) o exclamativo (¡!). Por ejemplo: "¿Qué quiere ese hombre?", "¡Qué buena idea!". También en una oración interrogativa o exclamativa indirecta: "Le pregunté qué hacía en el aeropuerto", "Me contó qué idiota era su ex marido". En tus oraciones 'que' se traduciría por el inglés 'that' y no tiene sentido interrogativo o exclamativo, entonces no lleva tilde y se escribe 'que'. Anyway, I hope that long explanation in Castilian didn't give you a headache. If you need me to rephrase anything in English or explain it further, no problem. If you have any questions... you know the drill. I can also explain the reasoning behind correcting 'esto' to 'este', that is, the difference between esto/este/esta, which also applies to eso/ese/esa and aquello/aquel/aquella. Let me know if such an explanation would help you out and whether you'd like it in Castilian or in English. ¡Mucha suerte y hasta la próxima! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5336 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 114 of 198 16 May 2011 at 1:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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@ ellasevia: ¡Muchas gracias, Philip! I tried responding to that in Spanish but it’s way too late for that. What I was going to say is that I can’t believe your brother would not be able to write that after two years of Spanish classes. Are you sure he’s actually been attending them? And in any case, I’m not actually writing Spanish so much as Franish, which you could probably already tell from the mistakes I made.
@ getreallanguage: Don’t worry. Reading is by far my most developed skill so far and if all else fails, I still have a trusted ally in Google Translate. Speaking of that site, it translated my sentence “Ahora voy a avergonzarme” as “Now I feel ashamed”. Is that really what I wrote? That’s not what I meant to write… Anyway, thank you for your corrections and explanations. I’m quite mad at myself for all the stupid accent-misplacing but I was writing at one in the morning so I guess I was already deeper asleep than I thought. (I think I’m just going to write all my Spanish in the middle of the night so I can always use this excuse.) Yes, I would appreciate an explanation on esto/este/esta because it was glossed over in Berlitz and Assimil and MT seem to be ignoring it. Any language offered by GT will be fine. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5336 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 115 of 198 16 May 2011 at 1:06am | IP Logged | |||||
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Week 19: May 9 / May 15
I’ve received a request to share my total study time for 2011 so far, not just for French but for Spanish and my dabble languages as well, and since I am in no way opposed to questionable statistics, I wasted some time calculating the following: Total Study Time as of 05-15-2011: French: 310 h. Spanish: 13 h. 30 min. DDDD: 7 h. 10 min. 2011 total: 330 h. 40 min. Average per week: 17 h. 24 min. Average per day: 2 h. 20 min. I was originally going to dedicate a large part of this update to a French MeetUp that was supposed to take place tonight but I was the only one of over a hundred Amsterdam Francophiles who was actually francophilic enough to show up at the location so I just ended up speaking French to myself like I always do. I’m a little fed up with trying to practice speaking while everything and everyone always seems to be sabotaging my efforts but there’s another meeting in a few days… Anyway, I’ve done plenty of other French-related things to talk about; French Week 19 (36): 14 h. 15 min. 2011: 310 h. 1. Reading (with vocab-underlining) 55 min. I finished Le Petit Nicolas and even though I’m still reading Babe; le cochon devenu berger at the same time, I’ll be adding a new book next week. It will probably either be Le Monde de Narnia or Alice au Pays des Merveilles but I’m not sure yet. 2. Harry Potter 105 min. I read the last chapter of Harry Potter early in the week and despite all my complaining about the narrator, I am very happy with the progress I’ve made by listening to him. When I started the first chapter, I thought he was speaking unnecessarily fast and I had immense trouble keeping up with him. Before I was even halfway through the book, I think by chapter 7, I had started noticing improvements in my listening and reading speed (I even started thinking he wasn’t speaking fast enough). After finishing the entire book, I returned to the first chapter to listen to the first couple of minutes and I was thrilled to notice that it didn’t sound fast or rushed to me at all, and that I could follow it effortlessly even without having the text in front of me. I have the other six books in PDF-form and the audio for at least the next three of them but I’m not sure yet if I’m going to read them. It will probably depend on if they’re narrated by the same guy. 3. Reading (without vocab-underlining) 180 min. Last week I started reading Twilight, or I should say Fascination, because I was feeling brain-dead and that feeling hasn’t really passed so I’ve just continued reading. Another reason is that I already read the original but that was years ago so that gives me just enough familiarity with the story to figure out the meaning of unknown words and to never lose track of what’s going on. I’m now stuck in a particularly sappy part but if I remember correctly, everything is about to go terribly wrong… 4. Film watching 185 min. Disney, Disney, more Disney. “Weren’t you going to watch real French films, Renee?” “Ehm, yeah, I’m getting to that.” 5. Film vocab 90 min. Disney again! Where would my language studies be without Disney films? The answer is nowhere, because I wouldn’t speak English, so I wouldn’t be writing this log right now. I wouldn’t even be a member of this forum! Scary thought, let’s move on. 6. Anki 30 min. What’s there to say about Anki reviewing. We all know how it works. “I didn’t actually know that word but now that I see it I’m sure I could have known it so I’m just going to press ‘good’ anyway.” Other 235 I don’t quite remember what I did for almost four hours apart from writing a very long email and making a half-hearted attempt at reviewing some Assimil lessons. Did I count listening to French music as studying? No, I never do that. Maybe I counted the time I spent bawling along. Yes, that must be it. Over the next few weeks, I plan to start using a couple of new materials. My experience with the MT Spanish course has been very positive so far and has made me decide to listen to the advanced French course as well. I probably won’t start until I’ve finished the Spanish one because I can only stand MT’s voice for so many hours per week. I also want to start using podcasts, starting with a few dozen podcasts about history I downloaded a while back. I have no idea where and how I did this but they’re here and I love history so I’m going to try to listen to a handful each week. I’m completely new to using podcasts as learning material so somewhere in the next few days I’m going to search in the site’s archives and look for some good links and tips. Dolle Dinsdag Dabble Dag As you’ve just been able to tell from the numbers at the start of this update, I’m not half as much of a dabbler as I sometimes claim to be. Still, I have great dabbling plans for this summer, especially for August. The idea was originally to basically spend the entire month studying whatever I want but I eventually abandoned that idea when I realized it would mean throwing an entire month of progress away. So I will still be studying French regularly but it will have to take a backseat to German and Old English, which will be my two main target languages. Apart from that I plan to reintroduce Arabic, Greek and Spanish and give especially the first two the attention they deserve. Esperanto might feature as well and my thoughts keep turning towards Italian but studying three Romance languages at the same time is probably a very bad idea... To be continued. EDIT: Why do I always spot mistakes in the split second after clicking "post reply"? Edited by ReneeMona on 30 May 2011 at 1:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 116 of 198 16 May 2011 at 5:03am | IP Logged | |||||
Lo que yo interpreté que querías decir con "Ahora voy a avergonzarme por tratar de escribir algo en español" era "Now I'm going to embarrass myself by trying to write something in Spanish". El hecho es que 'avergonzarse' quiere decir 'get embarrased', por lo que 'embarrass myself' no se dice 'avergonzarme', sino a través de una frase. Por eso te sugerí 'hacer el ridículo' (make a fool out of yourself). Por eso mi corrección fue: - Ahora voy a hacer el ridículo tratando de escribir algo en español. Esto, este, esta "Creo que voy a continuar con este libro y terminarlo" Debe usarse 'este' porque 'este' es el demostrativo masculino. 'Esta' es el femenino y 'esto' es el neutro. A continuación una explicación. En castellano hay tres tipos de demostrativos: proximal, distal y más distal. Estos refieren a objetos o entes que se encuentran cerca, lejos y más lejos. En inglés 'this/these' son proximales y 'that/those' son distales. En castellano hay tres posibilidades en vez de dos. Los demostrativos en castellano pueden ser masculinos, femeninos o neutros. A continuación la lista de los demostrativos. (masculino, femenino, luego neutro; singular a la izquierda y plural a la derecha) -Cerca este estos esta estas esto -Lejos ese esos esa estas eso -Más lejos aquel aquellos aquella aquellas aquello Los demostrativos masculinos y femeninos pueden usarse reemplazando un sustantivo (como pronombres) o antes de un sustantivo, modificándolo (como adjetivos). Ejemplos: Este hombre está loco. Esta mujer está loca. Ese hombre es ingeniero. Esa mujer es abogada. Aquel hombre es deportista. Aquella mujer es maratonista. Leí muchos libros pero este es el mejor. Leí muchas novelas pero esta es la mejor. Ese es el país más grande de África. Esa es la montaña más alta de Argentina. De todos los autos, aquel es el más caro. Aquella casa queda muy lejos de la ciudad. Como ilustran los ejemplos, los demostrativos masculinos y femeninos pueden reemplazar un sustantivo o modificarlo, y concuerdan con aquel sustantivo en género (y número, aunque los ejemplos no incluyen plurales). ¿Cómo funcionan los demostrativos neutros? Los demostrativos neutros sólo pueden usarse como pronombres, solamente pueden usarse en singular, y no pueden referir a ningún sustantivo en particular. Los demostrativos neutros pueden referir al discurso, es decir, a las palabras que se dicen en la conversación. También pueden referirse a la situación en la que uno se encuentra. O pueden usarse para referirse a entes vagos e indeterminados. Ejemplos: - ¿De qué hablaron en la reunión? - Eso no es importante por ahora. - Esto es muy complicado. ¿Podrías explicármelo? - Con tu madre hablamos de aquello, pero no quiero mencionarlo en frente de tu hermana. Hasta aquí esta breve explicación sobre los demostrativos. Si tenés preguntas... ya sabés qué hacer. Edited by getreallanguage on 16 May 2011 at 5:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5336 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 117 of 198 16 May 2011 at 8:42am | IP Logged | |||||
Wow, I can’t believe I asked such a stupid question. It’s my own fault for trying to write something coherent at one in the morning. I actually meant to ask about the difference between este and ese but it seems you either got that or you decided to include it as a bonus. Whichever it was, thank you! Berlitz calls este the "near me"-this and ese the "near you, not near me"-this and I’m not sure how that matches up with what you said about distant and more distant. So when exactly is ese used? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| getreallanguage Diglot Senior Member Argentina youtube.com/getreall Joined 5472 days ago 240 posts - 371 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian, Dutch | Message 118 of 198 21 May 2011 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hello there. Honestly I don't think Berlitz is explaining it so well. If you ask me, forget about the other participants in the conversation. Think of what este/ese/aquel mean taking _yourself_ as a point of reference. Broken down it goes like this: este -> near ese -> farther aquel -> more farther. All in relation to your position. As far as an English equivalent, I can only give you an approximation. There are times where English would use 'this' instead of 'that' but Spanish would use 'ese', not 'este'. Here's what I can tell you as a rough guide: este/esta: this thing (specific) ese/esa: that thing (specific) aquel/aquella: that other thing (specific) esto/eso/aquello: this, that, the other thing/that other thing (undetermined) Este/esta being of course masculine and feminine respectively. For examples see my post above. This is the reason that I often translate 'esto, eso y aquello' as 'this, that and the other thing'. Of course when este/esta, etc are used as adjectives, 'este XXXX' means 'this XXXX'. You get the idea. Remember that esto, etc can only be used as a pronouns, since because of their meaning they can't modify anything concrete. You might be getting the idea by now that ese/este/aquel have relational meanings, not static meanings, which when you think about it is the same case with this/that in English. This is the reason I defined este/ese/aquel as 'near/farther/more farther' instead of 'far' and 'more far'. Here's an example that might be helpful. Imagine that you are sitting at a table with a friend in your kitchen. There are two toy trucks on the table. There is another toy truck on the kitchen counter. You are referring to the toy trucks and you say: I like this one (you point to the first one) more than _this one_ (you point to the second one), but I think my nephew will like that one (you point to the third one) better. You see that you are using tone and inflection to distinguish between the first and the second one. However in Spanish you would say: Este (señalás el primero) me gusta más que ese (señalás el segundo) pero creo que aquel (señalás el tercero) le va a gustar más a mi sobrino. I hope that illustrates it well. You also have the possibility of using 'ese' for the second and third trucks and using tone and inflection to differentiate them. But Spanish gives you the distinct possibility of doing this with three different words. In this example, you could argue that the first two trucks are the same distance from you. But you are using 'este' and 'ese' to make a distinction between them. In English you would more likely use the same 'this' and use tone to establish the difference. This can also be done when talking about abstract things. This is when 'this, that and the other thing' can refer to topics of conversation instead of actual objects, and that's when 'esto, eso y aquello' are used. The same principles apply to them. I hope this explanation helped. Si tenés preguntas, ya sabés qué hacer. Edited by getreallanguage on 21 May 2011 at 11:22pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5336 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 119 of 198 22 May 2011 at 1:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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6 Week Challenge Castilian: week 3
Week 3: 5 h. 25 min. Total: 18 h. 55 min. Oh boy, do I feel bad about this week. This six week challenge is not panning out the way I envisioned it at all. I remember promising a very long and detailed half-way update for today so of course Saturday rolls around and I don’t actually have anything substantial to report on. My only excuse is that I got so caught up in procrastinating on all the things I had to do for school that I accidentally neglected Castilian as well. However, a week from today I will have almost finished all of the essays and tests standing between me and total freedom so though next week will likely be a similar story to this one, the last two weeks of she challenge should be much more productive. Assimil [05/109] I don’t know why I’m doing so little Assimil because every time I get around to it I really like it. The short five-line dialogues make for a very refreshing change after the three-page texts in La pratique du français and I really like the voices on the audio, especially the guy’s. Berlitz [05/20] I’m now exactly a quarter into the book and I have decided to follow through with it. I’m still not terribly fond of it but it has a nice way of introducing grammar rules in a systematic way and the long vocabulary lists at the end of every unit are a nice help in fattening up my Anki deck without having to look up the words for myself. As a language course meant to teach someone to speak and write, I think it’s awful but as a supplement to a study regime including Assimil and Michel Thomas, it actually adds a nice bit of structure and overview. Michel Thomas [36/83] While working through the third and fourth CD’s this week, I’ve started to feel a little sorry for the male student. Until last week I was reserving judgment on which of the two students was Dumb and which was Dumber but the male student has clearly earned the title by now, though Dumb gave him quite a run for his money. She has the same annoying doubtful tone in her voice whenever she answers a question and mispronounces things MT has corrected a dozen times before with the same astute stupidity but Dumber has that certain extra thing, I think they call it the X-factor, and it’s in everything he does. It’s in the long moments of silence he takes before answering a question that has already been asked twice before in the same lesson, it’s in the way he makes every syllable he utters sound like it took an Herculean effort to get the sound all the way from his longs to his lips and most of all, it is in the way he manages to defy Thomas’ persistent and increasingly inpatient pronunciation drills. Both Dumb and Dumber continue to make the same pronunciation mistakes they made back in the beginning. Both pronounce short o’s like long o’s and consistently place the stress on the wrong syllable, which never fails to start Thomas off on another rant on “pushing the penultimate syllable” or his NOSE-rule, but Dumber takes the cake here because by a strange twist of fate, Dumb can actually trill her R. (*gasp*, I know!) All but a little bit of joking aside, I can’t understand why MT still bothers with correcting their pronunciation at all. I would have given up long ago. I also found out this week that audio courses that one can listen to while driving, boxing or vacuum cleaning can also be listened to while lying in bed half-, or occasionally fully, asleep. By the time I woke up we had progressed about two lessons but the sentences MT asked us to translate were still easy so I figured I didn’t actually need to hear those lessons anyway. Miscellaneous Now as for my progress with Castilian in general, it’s hard to say something about it because I don’t feel like I’m making any. My pronunciation is slowly improving, and by that I mean that the impulse to pronounce everything as if it were French is slowly disappearing and the sounds roll out a little more naturally. I still rely on French way too much and every time I don’t know a word in Castilian (which happens fairly often), I don’t just insert the French word but switch over to French entirely. Case in point, my first Castilian conversation, though it hardly merits the name, took place the other day between me and a colleague who has lived in Spain for a year and it went something like this: Me: ¡Hola! ¿Como está? Other Person: Muy mal. M: Oh… ¿Está…, eh, crap, what’s the word for tired again? OP: Cansada. M: Oh, oui, c’est ça. I mean, ¿está cansada? OP: Si. M: Me t.., I mean, yo tambien. *sigh*, not exactly a triumph but I have two Spanish-speaking colleagues and an endless supply of Spanish tourists at my disposal whenever I’m at work so I’ll try to slowly build towards a bit more memorable discussions in the next few weeks. So I guess this wasn’t the long update that I promised a week ago but who over the age of five still takes pinky-promises seriously anyway? Oh, no wait, I just noticed that my exact words were: I promise to write a longer update next week, which is what I did. I’m not promising anything for next week because I have a feeling it is going to be such a disaster that I might be too ashamed to post anything at all. Edited by ReneeMona on 30 May 2011 at 4:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5336 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 120 of 198 23 May 2011 at 11:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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Getreallanguage, thank you for another excellent explanation! Your example sentence was especially helpful so from now on I’ll try to think of toy trucks whenever I get confused about este/ese/aquel.
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