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Solfrid Cristin’s way TAC 2011 Team Ohana | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes  Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 41 of 221 09 January 2011 at 2:50pm | IP Logged |
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Hello Solfrid, Nice to see another language learning Norwegian. Your appetite for
language outstrips mine. As you seem to be well informed on many topics (an impression of your posting in various threads), I was wondering if you'd have an opinion about this. The thought came to me while watching "Max Manus". The main character actually seemed quite multilingual. He spoke English in Scotland and German to the Nazis. He also volunteered for the war in Finland, where I suppose he would have spoken Finnish? (Although I can't remember if there was a scene of that or not.) And he yelled Russian to the Russian soldiers (just one word but anyhow). It got me thinking.. do you think there was a time in Norway when people did really learn foreign languages as such? You know, before we developed the mindset that "there is Norwegian, there is English, and then there's that other stuff that you'll never have to know about" (it's not a doctrine, of course, but isn't that basically how it is?). Is it possible that multilingualism was better developed x decades ago (let's say correcting for access to education or what have you)? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 42 of 221 09 January 2011 at 3:50pm | IP Logged |
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Hei numerodix,du ser ut til å ha et ganske bra utvalg av språk selv!
As for Max Manus specifically, I would imagine he had basic fluency in German and English, but I doubt that he would have more than a handful of words in Russian and Finnish, words that he had picked up while he was "in situ". As for Norwegians in general the answer is - as it often is - both yes and no. Today everybody go to high school. In order to enable everyone to tag along, the expectations are lowered, and if people have basic fluency in anything else but English, they are usually specially interested in languages. I asked my father for more details of the historical situation,and he said that those who went to high school in the 30ies had German,English and French. Those who wanted to study languages had to do an introductory course in Latin, once they got to the University. It was however comparatively few who actually finished high school, as you had to either come from a wealthy family, or (as in his case) have parents who were willing to make a lot of sacrifices, in order to pay for your schooling. And then of course you had the few who were very well off, who would be sent for an extended period of time to Italy or France, to learn the local language and culture (generally women). When I went to school in the 70ies, it was common for everyone to know English and German, and most people had a little French. A larger percentage went to high school, but not everyone, You still needed to have parents that saw the use of you doing that, instead of starting to work immediately, or take a practical education to be an electrician or something along those lines. So I think the answer would be that although a lot more people go to high school now, less people know several languages. However, I do not think there has been any point in time where knowledge of 3-4 languages was a common thing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 43 of 221 09 January 2011 at 10:21pm | IP Logged |
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An these are today's results from the Norwegian jury
RUSSIAN Films I looked at another film yesterday ”Le Cirque des Freaks – the vampire assistant”. It was again an unknown film to me, so I had to use the English subtitles, but I still feel that I learn quite a lot by listening actively. It was thankfully only in Russian, with no English voice at the same time, which was good. I am not quite sure I have the guts to see it again though, so I really hope that I can find some other films. I had also bought Charlie’s Angels in Russian which I saw most of today, but that one turned out to be not only in a incomprehensible Russian, with the worst translation I have seen ever (every 7th sentence was translated approximately) but the whole thing was so downright stupid, that in the end I dropped it. I am capable of looking at mindless action films or whatever for the sake of learning Russian, but this one insulted what little intelligence I have. You may wonder at the strange selection of films I have. It is due to the fact that I tried to find films that my daughters aged 11 and 14 might like (and they are into vampires in a major way). Letting my daughter’s wishes count was of course idiotic, because they scream blue murder every time I try to put something on in Russian anyway, so the next time I am going to chose exclusively what I want myself. I also went through my entire collection of DVDs to see if any of them had Russian language option, and the only one who had was “Borat”, which I had not actually planned to see again anytime soon. I started watching it this afternoon though, and from a linguistic perspective it wasn’t too bad, I understood a lot of the Russian, but I suspect that this was because it was supposed to be “broken Russian” with a heavy accent. However, after having watched it for about half an hour I found that I really could not stomach it. It is funny, but it is based on a humor which speaks to man’s basest instincts, and since I figured I probably would pick up things that were wrong, I just turned it off. Once is enough. RUSSIAN/FRENCH I finished “Russian for dummies” today, but man, is that book really for dummies! I cannot imagine being able to learn Russian from it, so for a beginner it must be a total waste of time and money. I read a lot of French because of it though. The Russian vocabulary is focused a lot on words of Latin and Greek origin that are common for many European languages, which make you feel that you can understand a lot of Russian, but it is not very helpful in teaching you to speak Russian. It is closer to a phrase book than a language course. ITALIAN I have continued with my book, and am at page 100 right now. I am starting to dislike it less, but whether it is the fact that my Italian is so rusty, or that I still have misgivings about the text itself– I do not know - but my progress is not fast. AND NOW TO THE REAL THING – PRODUCING SOMETHING – NOT VERY ORIGINAL… IN THE LANGUAGES I SPEAK SPANISH Pensé que ya era hora de que empezara a escribir en algun idioma que no fuese el ingles. Es que hace tanto tiempo que no escribo nada en castellano, que incluso eso me cuesta un poco de trabajo. Lo hablo con frecuencia, pero hace años que no lo escribo. Tengo pensado empezar a leer un libro que se llama “Como ser absolutamente infeliz y difrutarlo” ya veremos a ver si el hecho de leer mas castellano hace que me resulta más facil escribirlo. GERMAN Ich habe die letzte Woche kein deutsch gelesen, und ich habe es die letzte 30 Jahren fast nie geschrieben. Ich glaube ich habe einmal verzucht, etwas hier im Forum zu schreiben, aber sonst nichts. Ich habe aber gesagt das ich will dieses Jahr mehr deutsch lernen, und ich werde deswegen versuchen ein wenig zu schreiben. Wenn es so furchtbar ist das ihr es nicht leiden können, den sagen sie es mir ruhig, und ich höre auf, und versuche mich zu Hause zu verbessern bis ich es besser schaffe. FRENCH Pour le francais c’est la même chose. Depuis très longtemps je n’ècris presque rien, c’est tout en anglais. Je vois que dans toutes mes langues il me faut pratiquer beaucoup plus, et je vais essayer, et me laisser inspirer par ellasevia et autres, qui ecrivent souvent dans leur langues “target” . Comment diable dit-on une langue “target” en francais, dailleurs? (Ah - et je ne trouve pas la cedille.) ITALIANO Probabilmente sarebbe meglio non dire assolutamente niente in Italiano. Non ho mai imparato l’italiano scritto, soltanto l’italiano parlato. Nelle altre lingue ho dimenticato quello che sapevo fare. In Italiano non l’ho mai saputo. Comunque penso che è una delle lingue piú belle della terra, e voglio ritornare a parlarlo senza difficultá – e forse anche imparare a scriverlo senza difficultá. RUSSIAN ------------ And there is where my courage failed me. :) It is late, and I must go to bed, and would need at least half an hour to write something comprehensible in Russian – so next time – I hope! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 44 of 221 09 January 2011 at 10:31pm | IP Logged |
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So che è molto pigro da parte mia, ma vorresti spiegarmi brevemente come funziona questo
TAC, di che cosa si tratta? Non ne ho mai partecipato, avendo sempre (diciamo piuttosto: due volte) un'altro programma tutto mio. Vuol dire semplicemente studiare più postare i propri progressi? Edited by numerodix on 09 January 2011 at 10:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 45 of 221 09 January 2011 at 10:41pm | IP Logged |
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Con molto piacere, ma in Italiano no! Lo posso fare in norvegese?
Det er første gang jeg er med, men så vidt jeg har forstått så er målet at man skal bli ansporet til å jobbe mer med språkene sine, og middelet er å skrive opp hva man gjør, hva man har lest, det man sliter med, gode råd samt få tilbakemeldinger på det man gjør. Dine lagkamerater har et ekstra ansvar for å kommentere logen din, passe litt på deg og gi deg et ekstra lite spark bak når du strever, men alle er velkomne til å kommentere selvfølgelig. Så kåres det en vinner tilslutt, etter en avstemning blant de som har fullført (det var visst ikke så mange i fjor). Hva kommer det av at du har tre morsmål og bor i et fjerde land forresten? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| numerodix Trilingual Hexaglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 6785 days ago 856 posts - 1226 votes Speaks: EnglishC2*, Norwegian*, Polish*, Italian, Dutch, French Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 46 of 221 09 January 2011 at 11:33pm | IP Logged |
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Jeg skjønner, det er altså et lagspill av noe slag. Har aldri tenkt å delta pga.
tidspunktet, virker en smule skummelt å skulle velge 1. januar som begynnelse, får meg til å tenke på nyttårsforsett og den slags. Morsmålene mine kommer av at jeg har skiftet morsmål et par ganger. Et annet navn som kanskje passer bedre er "dominerende språk". Det startet med det opprinnelige morsmål, altså polsk. Men siden vi bodde i Norge få år etter at jeg ble født, ble det hovedsakelig norsk som var mitt hovedspråk under barneskolen og ungdomsårene. Deretter engelsk på videregående og videre. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 47 of 221 11 January 2011 at 10:29pm | IP Logged |
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My cold hasn’t quite left me yet – which according to my philosophy means: Yes, more Russian (and Italian), so here goes!
RUSSIAN Yesterday I copied 150 words and sentences into Anki from my class notes. Half way through it I realized I had made a mistake. I was writing down lots of word where you have to use the preposition HA and not B, and had written about 20 of them, with the preposition and the noun, when I suddenly thought: Hang on, with the preposition, all these words are supposed to be in the prepositional case (locative). So why am I writing all these in nominative? Since I was a little fuzzy on the rules (there was something about an E usually and I exceptionally, but when do I use what?) I found my “Teach Yourself Russian Grammar”, and did chapter 17 on the prepositional case, and then I went back and corrected all my Anki cards. For good measure I then wrote all the words which were noted down as exceptions in the prepositional case and then had the brilliant idea, of instead of just writing down the word in the prepositional case, and the Norwegian translation, which would not rally make me learn much, I would write down the Russian word in nominative, and the clue (prepositional case) on the front side of the card and then write the word in its Russian prepositional form on the back side. Brilliant idea, except I then had to look up all the words for the cases in Russian as it was too much fuss to keep switching between Norwegian and Russian. Well, I got it in the end. RUSSIAN/GERMAN I have just found a new web site in German about Russian called “Russian-online-net”. I just started, so I have not gone into any depth yet, but my favorite so far is “Quiz und Spass”- The one I tried out was about foreign words in Russian, and whether you could recognize them, and write the German word for it. I recognized all the words – but write them in German – that it another story. The good thing is that I build up vocabulary in both German and Russian as I go through the test. How neat is that! It is possible to use for beginners in Russian – if you understand German. I also went through a test to check my level of grammar. Out of 60 questions, 41 were correct, which is not too bad I guess, but the really nice thing is that after I finished the test, they gave all the answers, so I could see where I had failed, and even got a specific list on which grammar points I need to look closer at. Motion verbs and preposition seemed to be the major (though by far the only) points I need to work more on. I guess that in a multiple choice test you get some answers for free (lucky guesses) but as in all such tests I struggle with some of the vocabulary, and it makes I really hard to guess when there are some of the words you do not understand. After seeing the result, I decided to work on verbs of motion, and entered 50 words and sentences related to that in Anki this afternoon. I took another test the other day, which placed me as a low intermediate. I just laughed. Try to ask me for the way to the supermarket, or the library and we’ll see where you end up. ITALIAN I finished my Italian book yesterday – which means another 300 pages in Italian. It got more interesting as I kept reading, but the author will definitely not replace Agatha Christie as my favorite author of crime novels. The whole society described in the book was repulsive to me, it was a setting where 13 year old girls could be married to old men against their will, and women in general were treated like garbage. Not that this doesn’t still happen, but at least not in my part of the world. The good thing was that one of the main characters (although basically dead through most of the story) was Rosamund Clifford, the mistress of Henry the second of England. My particular interest in her, is that after she was poisoned (reportedly by the king’s wife, Eleanor of Aquitaine), a rose was named after her – Rosa Mundi. It is from the 15th century, and since I am a specialist in historic roses, it is one of the roses that I grow in my garden. It is striped, fuchsia and white, and is a very beautiful, scented and hardy rose. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| joanthemaid Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5472 days ago 483 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, German | Message 48 of 221 12 January 2011 at 2:24pm | IP Logged |
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Hi Solfrid Cristin/Congratulations on all your work; I think it's amazing that you're learning Russian at this rate while have to maintain 8 -!- other languages. By the way, dod you feel at all like that is too many, or difficult, or you can't really maintain them all at the same time, or are you comfortable with that and if so, where do you estimate your limit might be? I'm curious as I don't know any polyglots who know as many languages as you do.
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