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TAC 2011 - Team ש - Meelämmchen | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Mistral Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5930 days ago 160 posts - 179 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, German | Message 17 of 82 17 January 2011 at 9:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I guess that now you are reconciled with your Anki ;) I can't advise you on any of this languages but I can say that you are not wasting your time. 10 hours a week is really something! Keep up the good work!
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| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5084 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 18 of 82 17 January 2011 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks, Mistral, I'm appreciating it, and good luck with your Personal Statement!
Throughout the day I had to think about my writing practice again and again and I realized that I would feel better having it done yet today than delaying it and getting too often diverted. אני כותב את הטקסט כבר היום. אני 27 שנים ואני יודע שתיים שׂפות, גרמני, שׂפת-האם שלי, ואנגלית. גם אני לומד ואוהב עברית. גם אחד בן-המשפחה שלי יודעים שׂפות לועזית. לדוגמה אחד הדוֹדים שלי יודע פולנית ואחת הדודות שלי יודעת רוסית. חבל, שאני לו רוצה ללמוד אחת השׂפות האלה. גם הבת של אחות של בעל של דודה שלי יודעת יפנית, אבל אני רואה אותה רעתים רחוקות מאוד שלשום הלכתי לגן-חיות. אני אוהב לראות את החיות, אבל אחת להחות אין מקום מספיק, לכן אני הייתי גם קצת עצוב. בגן-החיות יש למות, אילים וציפָרים. ראיתי גם זאבים, חזירי-בית וקופים קטנים לא היה פשות לכתוב את הטקסט ראשון שלי, אבל אני מקוה, שאתם יכולים לקראו אותו I am writing the text already today. I am 27 years old and I speak two languages, German, my mother tongue, and English. I am also learning and loving Hebrew. Some of my family members also speak languages. One of my uncles, for example, speaks Polish, and one of my aunts speaks Russian. Too bad, that I don't want to learn one of those languages. Also, the daughter of the sister of the husband of my aunt speaks Japanese, but I see her very rarely. The day before yesterday I went to the zoo. I love watching animals but some of the animals don't have enough room, so I was/felt a bit sad, too. In the zoo there are llamas, deer, and birds. I also saw wolves, domestic pigs, and little apes. It was not easy to write my first text, but I hope, that you can read it. .אוי, אוי, ואי. עכשיו אני רק רוצה לגור Edited by Meelämmchen on 17 January 2011 at 8:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mistral Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5930 days ago 160 posts - 179 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, German | Message 19 of 82 17 January 2011 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you!
Well, I can't check what you just wrote but that's good that you are not delying it forever. I can recommend you a great website where you will find bunch of native speakers who are always keen to help you with your writing. Check out http://lang-8.com/. You write a blog entry and then Hebrew native speakers are requested to correct any of your mistakes. Of course, you can repay their help by correcting mistakes of people writing in German. Surprisingly, it's a lot of fun. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 20 of 82 17 January 2011 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | ||
For your first text in Hebrew, you managed to produce a very coherent, sound text, spelled VERY well (other than a few mistakes which I assume to be typos anyway) - congratulations! If you permit a few small corrections (you didn't specify you're looking for corrections, so apologies if this is "uninvited", I just had some extra time on my hands this evening and thought I'd correct it): 1 - There is no construction "I am X (years old)" in Hebrew. Instead, the expression used is the one which literally means "I am son/daughter of X" - in your case, it would be אני בן 27. 2 - The number 2 in Hebrew is a bit of a peculiar number, both in its male and female form. When counting (one, two, three) or answering a question about how many objects there are or some similar constructions, you would normally say "shnayim" or "shtayim". For example, כמה ספרים יש על השולחן? שניים. ("How many books there are on the table? Two.") BUT. When stating a full sentence, with a NOUN in addition to that number, "shnayim" changes to SHNEY, and "shtayim" changes to SHTEY: יש לי שני ספרים, "I have two books". Same thing here with languages, it's שתי שפות. 3 - Here the problem is semantics rather than grammar. If you said, "Gam ani lomed ivrit", it would be somehow, semantically, related to OTHERS - you would say such a sentence after saying, for example, that other people learn Hebrew too, so "gam ani", would be *me too*. On the other hand, if you're saying something, semantically, related to YOURSELF, it's "Ani gam lomed ivrit" - for example, when talking about what other languages you learn/speak, and then to that you add that *I also* learn Hebrew. This is more of a finesse than a serious mistake, though, but I wanted to draw your attention to it :) 4 - לועזיות, because it's plural (the adjective needs to fit the noun) 5 - Be careful to distinguish לו, "to him", from לא, a negation, in writing; they sound the same, but aren't spelled the same way. 6 - This is probably a typo, but it's לעתים 7 - You're transferring English again ;) The concept of having is expressed differently in English and in Hebrew - in English YOU actively HAVE SOMETHING, almost like an object, in Hebrew, the whole thing is semantically passive - TO YOU, לך, THERE IS something. I have a book would be "Yesh li sefer", literally, "There-is to-me book". Same thing with "having space" - יש לי מקום, יש לחיה מקום, etc. As you're saying the whole sentence in the past, it's לאחת החיות לא היה מספיק מקום, "to one of the animals there wasn't enough space" literally. 8 - The definite article must be added to all words describing something definite: HA-tekst HA-rishon, therefore הטקסט הראשון 9 - A typo: vav comes before aleph. I just noticed one more typo, you omit T in GermaniT earlier too. כל הכבוד! Keep up with the good work! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5084 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 21 of 82 18 January 2011 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mistral, I also thought about lang-8, but I heard too many bad things about it. When I am on a more advanced level I'll maybe give it a try. But it's good to hear positive echoes about it.
Ester, פיצוץ! Thank you very much! You are permitted now to correct unasked every future single mistake ;) Every correction is welcome. I just didn't asked for, because I thought it could sound too demanding. I was too tired yesterday evening to formulate such a request carefully, so I left it out. Well, some mistakes were really careless ones, and yet they obviously show some need for further drilling. Looking back I ought to have given the re-reading a little bit more time. I still have some questions and I would be happy, if you could answer them, but please feel no hurry on this! a) אחת השׂפות האלה / 'one of those languages' - I just want to make sure that this is correct, because I had a somehow bad feeling about it. b) shtey, shney: Is this only so with the number "two", so that it works all regularly with the rest? c) אני אוהב לראות את החיות - Here I translated into English without article. And wouldn't this lead to: lir'ot khajot? I actually meant watching animals in general, not watching the specific ones from the zoo. I hope you understand what I mean. So should I have left out the article and את in that case? When writing I thought this could sound some how strange, so I made it definite. I am also not totally sure on this in English, but would guess it's not definite. In German, anyway, it definitely wouldn't be definite. d) אחת להחות אין מקום מספיק It was my fault here. At first I translated it into past tense in English while not knowing I wrote present tense in Hebrew. As I realized it, I changed the English translation instead of the Hebrew, because I didn't remembered the past tense rules for yesh/ein. But the main mistake here is that I mixed up "one of" with "some of". It was not only one animal that lived on small room, but some. I don't know what means "some of" in Hebrew. I think I did the same mistake with "akhat ben-ha-mishpakha": one of the family members. It should be "some of the ..."; meaning another mistake: it should be also plural of ben-ha-mishpakha. I am not sure on this one, is it banim-ha-mishpakha? I guess at this point it really gets confusing, because I mixed up plural and singular twice. And I also had to look for specific vocabulary that I didn't have learnt so far, which also seems to be always a potential source of making mistakes... - if it was singular, would it then be: לאחת החיות אין מקום מספיק. And not: ... אחת להחיות אין ? In other words, where has the le- to be added? e) And I just saw today that I also mixed up לגור and לנוח. ;) So, thank you again, also for the encouragement! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 22 of 82 18 January 2011 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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a) Yes, that's correct.
b) The number two is the only one that changes its form; in other cases, there are sometimes some slight phonological changes, but the written form is not changed (e.g. "shalosh" is three, but to say thirteen, it's "SHLOSH esre", i.e. the A in "shalosh" disappears - but those are the things that you're going to pick up through regular usage of the language anyway, so don't sweat them too much now). c) Yes, if you're talking about animals in general, rather than those specific animals at the zoo (it was a bit ambiguous), you should leave out the article and ET. d) L- has to be added before the whole "unit" of what you're talking about: if it's "one animal", then add it before one: לאחת החיות, if it's "some (of) animals", it's לכמה חיות. To say "some of X", you would use the construction "kama me-ha-X", which literally fits the English expression, or you would just say "kama X", without article, which often sounds better. In this case, I would say לכמה חיות לא היה מספיק מקום. With regards to family members, it's actually BNEY hamishpacha, written בני המשפחה, a thing very similar to SHTEY/SHNEY I talked about earlier. I would say כמה בני המשפחה for "some family members", or even כמה מבני המשפחה, if you want to emphasize "some OF". You can't use article after "mi" though, it has to be mi-bney hamisphacha. I don't know if you studied that yet, it's called smichut. It's basically a unit of two nouns, in which the first noun "changes" a bit (there are detailed rules about that). It's like... A house is "bayt", but when it's school, it's "bEt sefer", right?, i.e. the vowel changes, even if in writing the form is the same (the vowel doesn't always change in situations like this: you have "tapuach", but you also have "tapuach adama", nothing changed in "tapuach", not in writing and not on the phonological level either). It's in the plural where it gets tricky - it's not "batim sefer", as you'd expect, but "baTEY sefer" instead. Similarly, to say people, you'd say "anashim", right? BUT, to say "people of the town", you'd have to say "anshEY ha-ir". Same thing in your example with "bnEY hamisphacha". Or animals - you can say "chayot", as you said, but there's a synonym "baalEY chaim". The singular is "baal chaim", בעל חיים, literally "the owner of life" :D, but in plural, because it's a smichut, baal becomes baalEY, rather than getting a normal -im plural. When female nouns are at the beginning of smichut, it's exactly the opposite: in the singular the form changes (thus you have "mishpacha", which in a smichut becomes "mishpachaT Levi", for example, i.e. the final hey turns into tav), and in the plural nothing changes ("mishpachot Levi"), except for some cases where, IF something changes, it's only on the phonological level, not in writing (e.g. "banot" as an independent noun, but in smichut, "BNOT Israel", for example - both are written בנות though). I hope I'm not confusing you! I'm rereading my explanations now and it sounds so complicated, but it's really not, once you get used to it, you stop even noticing that you're doing those changes. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5084 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 23 of 82 23 January 2011 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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All in all a good week, especially with one day not learning due to a headache. All this week's goals completed, except studying Greek a bit longer.
Week 3: January 17th - January 23rd Hebrew TST this Week: 10,5 hours (1,5 h/day) TST in 2011: 33,75 hours (1,45 h/day) New Anki Cards this week: 32 Average per week in 2011: 38 - wrote my first Hebrew text - Etzion lessons 31-33, and three additional lessons for listening comprehension that finally ended unit 2 - Colloquial Hebrew unit 2 Ancient Greek TST this week: 1,5 hours (0,2 h/day) TST in 2011: 7 hours (0,3 h/day) - reviewed Hellas lessons 3 and 4 (and drilled the corresponding grammar) I hoped I would have gotten a little bit further with Greek but it's ok. Like with Latin it's very important to get all these little grammar and translation rules right from the beginning and not to over go them. Later on it will save you time and work and spare you of maybe humiliating translation mistakes. Hebrew: This week listening comprehension was again a lot of work. I can't appreciate Etzion enough. The online companion is so helpful. Although I think, that the whole book is not exactly a book for self teaching Hebrew. Starting with it alone would have left you with a lot of questions and a teacher in that case would be very helpful. So I was glad I was through the whole introduction of SZT, when I started it. Well, next week I have to repeat some audio parts of this week's schedule again, especially some sentences with a lot of short or equivocally sounding words were tricky. And I hope to go through an SZT as well as an Etzion lesson. That should be enough, because they both look very time consuming. Should it become a very good week nonetheless, I maybe will start unit 3 of Colloquial Hebrew. It's easy going yet. But if it becomes a hectic week, it shall rest. Oh my, the podcasts and FSI, no progress again... I made a prognosis for the rest of the year: I had to study 2,4 Etzion and 0,5 SZT lessons per week to finish both books. Concerning all the Etzion listening practice it seems right now like a tough goal. But I can't say often enough how useful that is and funny too the most time. And hopefully, listening becomes easier in the course of the year. @Ester: You explained it like it should be explained, thank you very much! Just to ask this: does baal chaim means animal, did I understood it correctly? I think so, but in this case I wanted to make it sure again. (This is not implying you wrote too complicated.) So I have already read that baal can mean also 'carrier of'. And I like the 'idea' of animals as owners of life, but why is this so? Is it because of their soul and the soul being life? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ester Groupie Joined 5668 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 24 of 82 24 January 2011 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, "baal chaim" is an animal (pl. "baalei chaim"), it's interchangeable with "chaya". I don't know what's the logic behind the word, though. "Baal" can mean a lot of things depending on context. "Baal habayt" is the master/owner of the house, "baal miktsoa" is a professional (מקצוע is a profession), "baal nisayon" is somebody who's experienced, etc. It's a very flexible word. By the way, I really like your log and the choice of languages - I think Hebrew and Greek are a killer combination :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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