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TAC 2011 - Team ש - Meelämmchen | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5027 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 25 of 82 25 January 2011 at 9:05am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm glad to hear that, Ester! Now I'm wallowing in memories and looking back to some of my philosophy seminars where there were some students of theology attending from time to time and discussing. Since the classes were small there was most time some room for a little bit informal talk and one once talked a bit about Hebrew. Although I already envied him at this time I wasn't into Hebrew that much yet. Then again the lecturer read Greek for minutes in such an excellent way. Then there also were usually the atheist fraction, the Christians, the Kantian fraction, and, I guess, some 'existentialists', and also single students of propbably Arab studies (always the big dictionary on the table). Then always too some teachers on further training. Oh, and some Scheinstudenten, meaning equivocally students who attend the class only to get their attendance certificates (Schein) and therefore being mock/pseudo (Schein-) students. So, I really liked taking those classes. They were never boring and intellectual really rewarding. The students kept the point. And it would have helped if I had have a good grasp of Ancient Greek, but in the end it played a not too big role. And Ester, may I ask, if you are studying any language?
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| Ester Groupie Joined 5611 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 26 of 82 25 January 2011 at 10:28am | IP Logged | ||
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In addition to mostly maintaining Italian and Hebrew, I recently started Yiddish. I have plans for relearning Latin (learned it at school but forgot most of it) and starting German sometime soon too.
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| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5027 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 27 of 82 25 January 2011 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | ||
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I also thought about Yiddish but currently I would lack not only time but motivation. Anyway, good luck with it! Reading all your explanations and that you apparently speak only Hebrew made me think that you're a native speaker :) When speaking about maintaining, what is then your level, is it C1/C2? Well, and when you start German I would of course be glad to help you in exchange. However, I just made probably a mistake in my last post. After having written it I have been no longer sure about the Scheinstudent. Obviously it means first of all only a mock student, who is 'studying' to get the financial support that is part of studying. But I am also sure, that when I heard that term, that it also meant being only after the certificates, to study on the fast lane, and to get it all through very fast. (Maybe some other German speakers can help here.) Maybe this second meaning was more a joke or a word game with the original meaning. I don't know. And, finally, I also learnt Latin in school and have plans refreshing it, although I have currently no idea when to start it. You could, however, leave a note when you are starting it. Have a nice day!
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| Ester Groupie Joined 5611 days ago 64 posts - 114 votes Speaks: Modern Hebrew | Message 28 of 82 26 January 2011 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||
I estimate my Hebrew level to be a solid B2 (maybe, sometimes, bordering C1, given some recent milestones :)), but I never took any official exams to confirm it. I've come a long way in the past few years and became de facto bilingual - using Hebrew a good third or even half of most of the days - so the result is that I can speak fluently and I'm quite literate, but there's still a lot to work on, even if most of what I'm doing now is essentially "polishing" rather than "building" (for example, I'm trying to refine my vocabulary use by reading more complex authentic literature). By the way, out of curiosity, how much Yiddish can you understand simply by being a native German speaker? I'm really curious as to how transparent the two languages are. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5027 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 29 of 82 26 January 2011 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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I guess, you know the song A jiddishe mame. Although I am not too familiar with the A1-C2 levels, I would say my listening comprehension with Yiddish is better than with Hebrew now, so it would at least be A2-. There are a lot similiarities with German in this song.
Some examples. I modified the translations a little bit to stress the similiarities, which means in Yiddish I Germanized some of the diphtongs and consonants (if the pronunciation isn't altered or altered too much) and in the German and English translations I translated mostly word for word instead of favoring grammatical correctness. Obviously there are also some versions of this song which vary on some words a little bit (for example plural/singular), but it's no big difference in any case. In wasser, in feuer, woll sie geleufen far ihr kind. Nischt halten ihr treuer, dos is gewiß die greeßte sind. Durch Wasser, durch Feuer, würde sie laufen für ihr Kind. Nicht zu halten ihr Treue, das ist gewiß die größte Sünd'. Through water, through fire, would she go for her child. Not to keep her faith, this is certainly the greatest sin. Wer is bei dein wigele gesessen tog un nacht? Wer hot bei dein kranke-bett kein äug nischt zugemacht? Bei wemen sent ihr alle teuer, alle schön un gut? Wer hot far aych gegeben die letzte trop'n blut? Wer ist bei deiner Wiege gesessen Tag und Nacht? Wer hat bei deinem Krankenbett kein Aug' nicht zugemacht? Wem seid ihr alle teuer, alle schön und gut? Wer hat für euch gegeben den letzten Tropfen Blut? Who has at your cradle sat day and night? Who has at your sickbet no eye not shut? Whom you are all dear, all kind and good? Who has for you given the last drop of blood? In order to not give a false impression, I heard other songs where I almost understood nothing (but got at least some vague idea what it is about). Like I said, you always must have an ear on the diphtongs and word order. Finally, the German word for word translation sounds a bit old fashioned here and there, but given the poem style no one would grumble. By the way, a really nice and (but not in a negative way) schmaltzy song! Edited by Meelämmchen on 26 January 2011 at 9:49pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5027 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 30 of 82 30 January 2011 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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This week I was from Tuesday morning until Saturday evening totally exhausted and tired and lied in bed most of the time. I could not even study there a lot of. This strange illness is gone since today and I was again able to do something more, but I couldn't avoid the drop in numbers and I fear this week I actually learnt almost nothing, except for the past tense of "to have" in Hebrew (which almost came naturally, I didn't really had to learn it, and only had a short look on it before) and the present tense passive endings in Ancient Greek (which I had to drill because I almost completely have forgotten them). By the way, I drilled these Greek endings several times for maybe five minutes throughout the week, together with some exercises, and it worked really well and I learnt it this way without any toil.
Week 4: January 24th - January 30th Hebrew TST this Week: 6,25 hours (0,9 h/day) TST in 2011: 40 hours (1,35 h/day) New Anki Cards this week: 23 Average per week in 2011: 35 (8 Phrasebook cards in January) - Etzion lesson 34 - started SZT lesson 25 Ancient Greek TST this week: 1,5 hours (0,2 h/day) TST in 2011: 8,5 hours (0,3 h/day) - reviewed Hellas lessons 5 and 6 (and drilled the corresponding grammar) Outlook. I have to take part, so to speak, in a completely unexpected university TAC (TACU) until the middle of February. That is a mission impossible, including this week's stuff I have yet to catch up on. Of course it would be psychologically impossible for me to not learn - at least - Hebrew for two weeks. I hope I can integrate the language study somehow into the new study programme. I actually don't worry too much and will tackle problem after problem, chapter by chapter, or, as you say in Hebrew, פרה-פרה, cow by cow. I have read that there once was a new worker in a cowshed. As he first entered it, he was immediatly shocked by the large number of cows and asked, how he ever is supposed to milk those many cows. And he was answered, "cow by cow." No concrete goals for the next two weeks. I'll just have to see. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5027 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 31 of 82 06 February 2011 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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I should have studied Jewish Studies or Hebrew. This week I had a look on German departments, just to see how much Hebrew you have to learn per week. Mostly you have to visit classes six hours per week and additional self studies at home. At one university there was a language class hold only once a week. The most weekly hours I could find were eight. And I guess the numbers were all cum tempore, so four two hours sessions would only made 6 hours, 3x2 hours only 4,5 hours. If you do enough self study, I think it's ok, but if you are more the class room learner it could be some hours more. Well, it's everywhere a two semesters course that finishes with the Hebraicum, which is the equivalent of A1. This is the way it works after the Bachelor reform, so if I understood it correctly you had earlier on at least two years for doing the Hebraicum. Long term goal was A2/B1 for Bachelor (or even MA?) students. So that's at least the offical outlook you are given. By Israeli Ulpan standards the German universities are not doing well. After all I'm content with fulfilling the German standards at least regarding time spent.
Week 5: January 31st - February 6th Hebrew TST this Week: 9,25 hours (1,3 h/day) TST in 2011: 49,25 hours (1,35 h/day) New Anki Cards this week: 41 Average per week in 2011: 36 - Etzion lessons 35 and 36 - finished SZT lesson 25 Ancient Greek TST this week: 1,5 hours (0,2 h/day) TST in 2011: 10 hours (0,25 h/day) - reviewed Hellas lessons 7, 8, and W2 This week was actually good. In Hebrew I learned the numbers 11-20 and some minor things. My favorite word was limzo-chen be'enaj, which you use to express something you like but which means literally 'to find charme in my eyes'. Then there was sof tof - hakol tof, actually a German saying that must have made it somehow into Hebrew and means 'all's well that ends well'. I could even have done a bit more wouldn't I have been distracted by an online site of digitized German (and German Jewish) exil newspapers from the 30ies and WWII. What a ressource! Even some language related things made it into the news, like the January 1935 boycott call on foreign fashion products and the announcment of Germanizing all foreign trademarks. The article showed also empathy for German soldiers, who now must been hunted by the obsession what would happen to their Pour le mérite. (joke) The article also showed on what products you would have to refrain from back then and there were so many words I didn't know, mostly French ones, but also some English ones who seemed to be popular. Compared with the German back then the today's German is really poor regarding foreign words and yet today a lot of Germans complain about too many being used. Another article compared the German gymnastic movement with the sport movement. And it's a really bad thing the gymnastic movement is still popular today in Germany (at least not unpopular), there is even a soccer club today named after the founding gymnast Turnvater Jahn, whose main book (Deutsches Volkstum) the movement itself compared with Mein Kampf in 1935. So I just wanted to say it's a very informative site for everyone interested in, especially, the 1930ies. ( http://deposit.ddb.de/online/exil/exil.htm ) Just overviewing shortly some articles I saw ones from Bruno Walter, Erika Mann, or Stefan Zweig. I had a dream last night about Greek grammar. It was confusing and I couldn't remember most of it when waking up. I must have been arguing with someone about a translation and feeling bad somehow. After some introspection I think it symbolized my bad conscience about the few Greek I am learning. Speaking of allegories, in W2, which is the second repition lesson (there is a repition lesson in Hellas after every four lessons, where no new grammar is introduced, just a lot of translating practice), there is a interpretation on Hercules' fight against the hydra in the marshlands of Lerna. Because Iolaos had to use fire whenever Hercules beheaded one of the hydra heads the book assumed that this myth could be an allegory of fighting the dangers of the marshlands, wild animals, insects and so one, for example with drainage. It must be a strong fear, when they today still make movies like Swamp Thing ;) Greek grammar drills helped this week when I saw I haven't translated two appositions correctly back then (this oviously set the dream off). Monthly summaries are a good thing keeping track of the progress. And after thinking a bit about it, I came to the conclusion that I can't do it calendar-wise monthly, but I will do four week summaries, because it is easier although I then will probably make overviews in the middle of August this way. Summary Weeks 1-4, January 1st - January 30th Hebrew TST: 40 hours New Anki cards: 149 - reviewed Etzion lessons 1-30 - Etzion lessons 31-34 - SZT lessons 22-24 - Colloquial Hebrew units 1 and 2 - Hebrewpodcasts lesson 6 - wrote my first text in Hebrew Ancient Greek TST: 8,5 hours - reviewed Hellas lessons 1-6 - read Poeschel until page 68 - Mehr's course 1-3 Edited by Meelämmchen on 07 February 2011 at 3:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5278 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 32 of 82 11 February 2011 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Oh no, now you have made me want to learn Yiddish as well!! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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