Hungarian - January challenge thread (Multilingual Lounge) Language Learning Forum

Hungarian - January challenge thread
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hribecek
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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Message 617 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 5:51pm | IP Logged

maxval wrote:

hribecek wrote:

3. Edzed a tested. - Eddzed a tested (this one's tough!)

Yes. And how is it using the short form of the imperative?

This was a good guess, based on the rule about 'dz' changing to 'ddz' and then knowing that there must be a vowel before the last 'd'.

So there is a short form too!? I have no idea but I'll go for 'eddzd', but I expect it's something completely different because surely that word isn't possible? What is most commonly used?
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hribecek
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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Message 618 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 5:54pm | IP Logged

maxval wrote:

hribecek wrote:

8. Elrontod a számítógépet. - Rontsad el a számítógépet

Please tell me the short form too!

Again I can only guess at 'rontsd'. Again, which is most commonly used?
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hribecek
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
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Message 619 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 5:58pm | IP Logged

maxval wrote:

Amazing! You have a score of 18/20!

Only two errors:

hribecek wrote:

14. Emlékszik rám. - emlékesszen rám (difficult!)

18. Ajánlom ezt a könyvet. - Ajánoljam ezt a könyvet.

It is "emlékezzen" and "ajánljam".

Will explain in a new posting.

I'm very surprised and of course pleased but I did have the advantage of having done my practise exercise today before that and having studied this form quite well over the last week so that I'd learned about most of the exceptions and rules. If I try it again in say a couple of weeks or so then I'm sure my score will drop quite a lot!
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hribecek
Triglot
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Czech Republic
Joined 5349 days ago
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Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish
Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian

Message 620 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged

maxval wrote:

Yes please! My book lists only about 10, so it would be great to know the others. I know some like ugrik and fekszik, I'm very curious to see the other words and their imperative base.

maxval wrote:

2. Verbs having two stems, one with "sz", and another with vowel + "z". Imperative is always with the "z" stem. Only 3 such words: emlékszik, igyekszik, szándékszik - emlékezik, igyekezik, szándékozik.

This is excellent info because I've always wondered about emlékszik and how it tends to behave strangely and yet there is no explanation about it in my book. Does this mean that I can say in normal conversation emlékezem and it means the same as emlékszem?

maxval wrote:

3. Verbs with stems ending in two different consonants that add a vowel between the two consonants to their imperative forms where the ending begins with a consonant (the added vowel depends on the vowel harmony type of the stem). The problem here is the following: some of these verbs sometimes have double behaviour: they can add endings to their second stem, but they can add endings to their primary, dictionary stem too. There is no clear, general rule which verbs can be conjugated both with their primary and secondary stems, and which ones only with their secondary stems.

The following verbs are here:
- Verbs whose stem ends in -d.
- Verbs whose stem ends in -r.
- Some of the verbs whose stem ends in -l:
-- all verbs whose stem ends in -nl, -tl, -zsl,
-- some of the verbs ending in z - there are about 20 such verbs, I can give you the full list, if you wish.
-- some other verbs, about 25 verbs, I can give you the full list too.

Again, yes please, the lists would be great.

maxval wrote:

And dont forget about the 9 verbs with irregular endings in imperative!
eszik, hisz, iszik, jön, lesz, megy, tesz, vesz, visz

And also dont forget the verb "van" has no imperative, the verb "lesz" is used instead.

Thanks again for all this valuable information! My book is good but you're better!

Edited by hribecek on 18 May 2011 at 6:16pm
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maxval
Pentaglot
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Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
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Message 621 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 7:25pm | IP Logged

hribecek wrote:

maxval wrote:

hribecek wrote:

8. Elrontod a számítógépet. - Rontsad el a számítógépet

Please tell me the short form too!

Again I can only guess at 'rontsd'. Again, which is most commonly used?

Yes, right.

In all cases: the short version expresses a more determinate command.

Olvasd el a könyvet = Olvassad el a könyvet
the 1st is a little bit more determinate command, no other difference

There is a short / long version only in 2nd person singular, both indefinite and definite conjugation!

All verbs has a short/long version, with the exception of eszik and iszik that dont have a short form in 2nd person, singular, indefinite conjugation.
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maxval
Pentaglot
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Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
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Message 622 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 7:38pm | IP Logged

hribecek wrote:

My book is good but you're better!

This depends on the methodology of the books author!

In many books you will read that "van" has a a future tense and a conditional. This may be considered true from a practical point of view, but this is simply not true from a linguistic point of view. So this a "lie" that is good on short term, but on long term is not good to tell to the student something that is not true because of practical reasons. This is my opinion.

In reality in Hungarian there are two separate verbs "van" and "lesz". "Lesz" is not future tense, and is definitely NOT the future tense of "van". It is true that "lesz" has a sense of futurity, but this is not the grammatical category of the verb, only its meaning. How else you will explain sentences like "Ott fogok lenni", future in more future?
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maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 5073 days ago
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Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew

Message 623 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 7:59pm | IP Logged

hribecek wrote:

1. Verbs having two stems, the dictionaery form is with "sz", but there is another stem with a vowel + "d" or with "d" instead of the "sz". The imperative is formed always using the "d" stem! Example: "alsz"(ik) - "alud".
There are 19 such verbs, if you wish, I will list them.
Yes please! My book lists only about 10, so it would be great to know the others. I know some like ugrik and fekszik, I'm very curious to see the other words and their imperative base.

stem with "sz"      stem with "d"
alkuszik      alkudik
alszik                 alud
cselekszik      cselekedik
dicsekszik      dicsekedik
esküszik      esküdik
fekszik      feküd
furakszik      furakodik
gazdagszik      gazdagodik
gyanakszik      gyanakodik
gyarapszik      gyarapodik
haragszik      haragud
kötekszik      kötekedik
menekszik      menekedik
mosakszik      mosakodik
növekszik      növekedik
nyugszik      nyugod
öregszik      öregedik
tolakszik      tolakodik
törekszik      törekedik

Edited by maxval on 18 May 2011 at 8:00pm
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maxval
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Bulgaria
maxval.co.nr
Joined 5073 days ago
852 posts - 1577 votes

Speaks: Hungarian*, Bulgarian, English, Spanish, Russian
Studies: Latin, Modern Hebrew

Message 624 of 1549

18 May 2011 at 8:03pm | IP Logged

hribecek wrote:

maxval wrote:

hribecek wrote:

3. Edzed a tested. - Eddzed a tested (this one's tough!)

Yes. And how is it using the short form of the imperative?

No. The short form is "edzd". Why?

The short forms ending is -d, for example olvas - olvasd, ír - írd, beszél - beszéld, etc..

So edz + d = edzd.

Endings are almost always very logical in Hungarian, with only a very few exceptions!

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