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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 193 of 200 27 April 2011 at 1:10am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, I find it hard to believe - but not absolutely impossible. The mind works in mysterious ways. I would also have liked to hear of the challenges the OP found, since like you, I am genuinely interested in the outcome. I have struggled like a lioness with Russian for a year without having all that much to show for it. If he has found a better way, I would like as much input as possible. I would therefore welcome more details, though I would understand it if he did not feel inclined to provide them after the reception he has received. And I know that you particularly would not have said "gotcha", but I think you would also admit that there are others here who most probably would have. Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 27 April 2011 at 1:15am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| HMS Senior Member England Joined 5107 days ago 143 posts - 256 votes Speaks: English* | Message 194 of 200 27 April 2011 at 1:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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S Allard,
The OP was asked to state his proficiency in terms of CEFR level attained, something he was unfamiliar with. He then obviously googled CEFR and gave as close approximation as he could based on the available explanations for each level. He even said he could be wrong and offered to submit a text of a level he felt comfortable with for an "expert" to assess his level. Everybody then stuck with the B1 claim though and the rest of this thread was built on that, which is unfair. Like Sofrid, this thread has inspired me to "jumpstart" my German using MT. I will start tomorrow and take with it certain lessons I have learned from Abazid's experience. By stating this here will help me "take the plunge" as I've now put my cards on the table. I will post my intentions and aspirations if anyone is interested. My experience of what MT I have listened to so far has given me one doubt though - I would say I have listened to MT foundation all the way through in sporadic bursts. If I listen to any given chapter in it I can produce the answer. I think this could be more to do with (What is the word for it?) Like when muslims learn to recite the koran verbatim in Arabic, without undestanding it. There are also people who can produce any quote from any given verse from the bible. Maybe this is what Abazid experienced? Only he knows. I'm about to find out how something similar goes for me. Edited by HMS on 27 April 2011 at 1:27am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| leyus Diglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5437 days ago 21 posts - 31 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Spanish | Message 195 of 200 27 April 2011 at 2:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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Solfrid Cristin - Unfortunately, with whole respect I must disagree with your opinion. I gave my opinion about experiment and lack of providing any results, as in my opinion someone who makes public claims what is he going to do suppose provide some kind of objective feedback. I made myself clear about it. I also added few sarcastic comments about pseudo-science which he presented. Those comments one can consider being disrespectful, I wouldn't call it so strong but let's face it I've done them because in my opinion he's and aerozeplyn posts are ridiculous! We must keep in mind that this forum might be often visited by underage audience! Schoolchildren who learn for their language exams etc. And I could see here OP suggesting 61 hours sleep deprivation and aerozeplyn suggesting LSD!!!! Damn I know there are dodgy places on internet and if teenager without supervision will look for troubles he will find them, but should we really in the name of respect and tolerance nod and promote potentially harmful behaviour, and someone who suggests that this might help you with your language? What's next? Ultimate Amphetamine Learning Exp? How I learned Spanish in 3 days by oxygen deprivation? I didn't went through all that links which they provided but I'm sure you can find full pallet of dangerous practices as sleep deprivation or using LSD might be. And as we know young mind is very willing to look for shortcuts. If we will agree for people publishing potentially hazardous ideas as a method that will "cut your learning time by half" as OP claimed then it won't be a surprise that young people will first try those methods and that might be our fault. That's why I think we should point out what's not right, and that's why I DON'T HAVE RESPECT for most of that pseudo-science rubbish. However I've seen some positive values of that experiment, pointed what I considered unnecessary and as I haven't seen any proof therefore I am unable to trust someone who promotes learning languages in the state of levitation. And I'm not going to change my mind for freedom of speech, he have freedom of speech, I have it as well. There is no reason to believe those people, or promote their viewpoint. People who suggest that kind of potentially detrimental ideas without any scientific proof expect that no one will speak up. There is no proof on those websites, and there is no proof in this topic thus I consider it useless.
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| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6550 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 196 of 200 27 April 2011 at 3:20am | IP Logged | |||||
It's impossible in this case. If he mastered the material he used 100% it wouldn't put him at B1. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5130 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 197 of 200 27 April 2011 at 4:10am | IP Logged | |||||
True, but he revised his level once he found out what a B1 level actually was, although I still think he was being generous with his own assessment - he really needed an outsider's assessment, all said and done. I took a look at the syllabus for the MT Vocabulary course he'd posted and, while there were a fair number of useful things, I think he'd be hard pressed to get to an A2 level with just the MT course. It's a good foundation for further study for sure, but in no way a complete course, unless you consider not being able to count beyond 10 or telling time something that's not needed in every day life (that was one of the things that bothered me about the MT Polish courses - knowing how to count isn't sufficient to be able to tell time). But with that as a foundation, he should be in good shape to quickly advance through other, more complete courses, provided he's retained what he learned in the MT course. If the takeaway for him is the desire to continue studying, then he at least got something out of it, albeit by wrecking his body for a week. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6011 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 198 of 200 27 April 2011 at 9:31am | IP Logged | |||||
I don't know the technical term for it, but most people round here just call it "parroting". It's something I was wary about when he talked about repeating sections and then getting them right. I've noticed a few times how quickly my brain can pick up on the order of items in a recording or a wordlist. The big giveaway was when I had to think of the French for strawberry in order to remember raspberry of blackberry (the next two items on the vocabulary list).
The problem is that he might not know. While I noticed the problems with revising stuff in the same order, other people don't. The success in memorising a list of items is seen as a success in language learning, even though it doesn't lead to an improvement in conversational ability. Several large commercial publishers take advantage of the fact that learners really can't judge the value of their own learning by producing material that can be completed easily, thus giving the customer a nice fuzzy feeling and getting him to recommend the product to friends, even though he hasn't really achieved anything significant. (Hint: big yellow box.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jazzboy.bebop Senior Member Norway norwegianthroughnove Joined 5418 days ago 439 posts - 800 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Norwegian | Message 199 of 200 27 April 2011 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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From my own experience with Michel Thomas Foundation and Advanced French, I think it is easy to overestimate your ability with the language upon completion of the courses as you feel like you have learned so much in a short space of time.
Abazid did re-evaluate his level though and said it was probably more around A2 than B1 and I think A2 is within the realms of possibility if you were to complete the Foundation, Advanced and Vocabulary courses, though you might need to do the vocabulary course a couple of times or so for the info to stick. Correct me if I am wrong, but the vocabulary you would need to be considered around A2 level is from around 650+ words and if you were to complete all three levels of MT and assuming you can remember the content you should know well in excess of 650 words. Abazid might not be comfortably at A2 but I think in that respect at least, we could give him the benefit of the doubt. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| TerryW Senior Member United States Joined 6357 days ago 370 posts - 783 votes Speaks: English* | Message 200 of 200 28 April 2011 at 12:09am | IP Logged | |||||
"three / 6 = 1 half" I got that alternate answer by Quantum Jumping to the planet Sudoku. Sorry for this interruption, we now return you to the Fight of the Century. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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