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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes  Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 73 of 169 11 October 2011 at 6:07pm | IP Logged |
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The differences between the traditional characters and simplified ones are minimal, especially if you are learning to read them.
If you are learning to write them, then learning traditional characters before the simplified ones is a tremendous advantage. In other words, if you learn traditional characters first, then the simplified ones will seem easy. The reverse is not true. Also, by learning traditional characters, you not only can read today's literature in Hong Kong and Taiwan, but you can also begin to read many older Chinese documents created before 1950. It allows you to learn from more than one source, and lets you drink from many fountains. As for the HSK, since it is a test of Mainland Chinese, the current examination is only offered in simplified characters, but you may write in either simplified or traditional characters without penalty. I will check further on this and get back to you. Another proficiency exam that will definitely use traditional characters is the Taiwan-based Test of Proficiency ( TOP ). Some information about the TOP can be found here: TOP I will regularly update the log with my progress in preparing for the HSK and let you know how feasible it is to do it in traditional characters. Edited by zhanglong on 11 October 2011 at 6:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 74 of 169 11 October 2011 at 10:04pm | IP Logged |
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Mandarin
Speaking of tones, here's an old chestnut designed to make your tongue twist in terrible ways... Traditional characters: 四是四, 十是十, 四十是四十, 十四是十四, 四個十四不是四十四, 十個四十不 四十是四十, 十四是十四, 四個十四不是四十四. --- Simplified characters: 1) 四是四, 2) 十是十, 3) 四十是四十, 4) 十四是十四, 5) 四个十四不是四十四, 6) 十个四十不四十是四十, 7) 十四是十四, 8) 四个十四不是四十四. The purpose of this exercise is to learn how to pronounce variations of si and shi that have different tones. 1) four is four, 2) ten is ten, 3) forty is forty, 4) fourteen is fourteen, 7) fourteen is fourteen ( repeats line 4 ) but I must confess, while I can say lines 5 - 8, I don't quite understand the meaning. 5) four fourteens is not four forties 6) ten forties ?? 8) four fourteens is not four forties ( repeats line 5 ) My impression is that this is a common saying among Chinese children, so if the grammar is incorrect in service to the phonetic drill, I can see the point of lines 5-8, but otherwise, what do these lines mean? Heh, I probably have written the tongue-twister incorrectly. And of course, in Cantonese, this wouldn't be a tongue-twister. Edited by zhanglong on 11 October 2011 at 10:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 75 of 169 09 November 2011 at 9:37pm | IP Logged |
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I found out from a colleague what my mistakes were in the previous tongue twisters:
5) 四个十四不是四十四 four fourteens ( 56 ) is not 44. 6) 十个四十 不是 十四十 ten forties ( 400 ) is not ?? . Ahhh... ten fourteens （140） is not 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 76 of 169 09 November 2011 at 9:40pm | IP Logged |
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Mandarin:
My mini-goal is to learn up to HSK 5, C1 level vocabulary by December 31st. I am devoting at least two hours a day of various drills to at least learn the vocabulary. Edited by zhanglong on 09 November 2011 at 10:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 77 of 169 10 November 2011 at 3:35am | IP Logged |
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Mandarin
So to further define the scope, it's approximately 1700 characters and 2500 words in about 50 days. Since the goal is only to be able to READ these, not write them or sit for exam, I think I've chosen a relatively easy receptive skill task. The words are already entered into Pleco, a Chinese dictionary that runs on several hand－held platforms, including the iphone. I will add the characters later today. I will also learn the building blocks of writing ( as well as reading ) characters: the 214 Kangxi radicals. My routine will be as follows: independent of my listening to Cantonese or Mandarin, this is very specifically a reading project. I am learning the most frequent characters for each level of the HSK along with the words they are a part of. For example: 的 is the most frequent character. In the HSK list, it appears as: 的 [A1] de - a particle 目的 [B2] mu4 di4 - noun - objective, goal 的确 [C1] di2 que - adverb - really 似的 [C1] shi4 de - particle So for this character, I've learned four words. The biggest obstacle now is trying to find example sentences that contain the vocabulary. I need to find a reliable editor. Example sentence: 我的目的是学很多汉字， 但是我的目的似的的确难。 Let's begin. Edited by zhanglong on 10 November 2011 at 3:52am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 78 of 169 10 November 2011 at 3:38am | IP Logged |
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Ah, this is supposed to be a reading, not a writing exercise, but they do tend to reinforce each other. I can't tell if I have read it correctly unless I write it, but perhaps the best use of my time is to write it electronically and not by hand.
The goal is recognition not production. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| zhanglong Senior Member United States Joined 4927 days ago 322 posts - 427 votes Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese | Message 79 of 169 10 November 2011 at 3:41am | IP Logged |
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Without an editor, I can't tell if I am writing English using Chinese characters. ( I probably am. )
I need two things: a knowledgeable native speaker with writing skills at the college freshman level, and many example sentences that contain my target vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Everplayer Diglot Groupie China Joined 5047 days ago 69 posts - 85 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, English Studies: Japanese, German | Message 80 of 169 10 November 2011 at 6:20am | IP Logged |
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It sounds like a great plan. In fact I have a similar idea with my learning of Japanese. However, such a process involves much more efforts (and benefits) than you expect, especially when you plan to achieve so much within 50 days. Even a native speaker may need some time to conjure a meaningful sentence out of a few prescribed words, not to mention that you need so many in short time. It may work only if you can find an existing collection of sentences with the words you want.
Here, the second half of this sentence: 我的目的是学很多汉字， 但是我的目的似的的确难。 is wrong. 的确 and 似的 are never put together because they are conflicting.One may say "goals being difficult" in English but never "目的难" in Chinese. An alternative sentence, which is rather artificial, could be 的确，我的目的是学很多汉字，但是这个很难 似的。 Anyway, I would like to help when you find it difficult to organize a sentence with certain words. I used to consider myself a good native speaker as I actually read through the University Chinese textbook when I was in primary school. (weird hobby for a kid……) Oops, I just realized I don't meet your criterion because I didn't attend university in China. :P 1 person has voted this message useful |
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