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Chinese Odyssey 2024

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 5054 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 57 of 169
09 September 2011 at 3:36pm | IP Logged 
How similar are Cantonese and Mandarin?
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zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4927 days ago

322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 58 of 169
09 September 2011 at 8:02pm | IP Logged 
They are about as similar as French and Spanish, if I had to choose a Western example.

Mandarin and Cantonese both descend from a common ancestor, but time and distance made them diverge in different ways.

Mandarin is the national language of China; almost all education is in Mandarin and the government heavily promotes its use. Cantonese is but one of several local varieties of Chinese and is learned not in school, (unless you are in Hong Kong) but at home from family or local use.

They are not mutually intelligible; a Mandarin speaker cannot understand a Cantonese speaker and vice-versa, but they share the same written script, with some minor exceptions.

A Cantonese speaker may read a series of Chinese characters with either a Mandarin or Cantonese pronunciation.

Part of my thesis will be an extensive and comprehensive comparison of the two languages, but much about these languages has already been written. I need to find a unique aspect to write about.
2 persons have voted this message useful



zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4927 days ago

322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 59 of 169
16 September 2011 at 11:35am | IP Logged 
I just recently bought 广东粤方言概要, GuangDong Yue FangYan Gaiyao, (literally, the GuangDong Yue Dialect Outline ).

It is an interesting book, published by Jinan University, that outlines all of the various dialects of Cantonese within GuangDong province.

It is written entirely in simplified Chinese characters and does not include other languages spoken within Guangdong, such as the Hakka and Shantou Hua varieties of Chinese, but it will tell the similarities and differences between Guangzhou Hua, Taishan Hua, and Luo Ding Hua, for example.

I am focusing almost all of my efforts these days on listening to both Mandarin and Cantonese. I must make time for both reading and writing, but I find that time is so limited that I have to focus on a smaller and smaller area if I am to achieve any success. It is better to learn five words well and be able to use them, than to barely remember a hundred.

As for listening:

* The first hurdle was to be able to distinguish between Mandarin and Cantonese when it was spoken to me quickly. That one was relatively easy to surmount.
* The second hurdle is to be able to pick out words I can recognize in both languages. More and more I am able to understand what is asked of me or what is being said.
* The third hurdle is to be able to understand everything said to me.
* The fourth hurdle is to know what to say BACK!
* The fifth hurdle is to be able to respond in real-time to whatever is asked of me without stammering, hesitating, or saying "我听不懂".

So, it's a long, but fun, road.


1 person has voted this message useful



hkboy
Groupie
Hong Kong
Joined 5674 days ago

65 posts - 86 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Cantonese, Mandarin

 
 Message 60 of 169
30 September 2011 at 7:13am | IP Logged 
Nice to see your updates. Are you putting equal time on Cantonese and Mandarin? Also, how are you going about learning the characters?

Keep up the good work!
1 person has voted this message useful



zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4927 days ago

322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 61 of 169
04 October 2011 at 2:42pm | IP Logged 
This is my first post using an iPad. I find it is so much faster than using my laptop, but there are no
guarantees I will be able to post in the same way, haha.

I am spending more time on Mandarin because here on the mainland, it's what saves you in daily
conversation. I am spending about 20 percent of my time on Cantonese and the remaining time on
Mandarin.

我觉得普通话一点难可是广东话太难了!

I'm also surrounded by other interesting varieties of Chinese such as taishan hua and chaozhou hua, all of
which are marvelous distractions. I have less than a year to reach my Mandarin and Cantonese goals so I
better leave other languages as entertainment and focus on my work.

1 person has voted this message useful



zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4927 days ago

322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 62 of 169
10 October 2011 at 1:06am | IP Logged 
I wish there were a way to rename the title of a log; "Fluent" and "300 days" are not exactly what my goals are now.
---
My current goal is to be at C1 level in Mandarin and to be at B2 level in Cantonese by 10/10/2013.

I will take my time, progressively challenging myself at each stage and making the most of available resources.

As much as I enjoy learning about all of the languages of China, I need to focus, otherwise I will be at A1 level in every language.

Mandarin

While here in Mainland China, I will focus on taking the HSK examinations.

My first goal is to finish a formal certification in HSK 1 by November 10th.

That means I need to find a place to take the exam here; once I get the logistics of this test out of the way, I'll know what to do for HSK 2 - 6.

My ultimate Mandarin goals include:

passive:
    Understanding any television or radio broadcast of a general nature.
    Reading a Chinese newspaper.

active:
    Speaking about various topics in general conversation
    Writing all words in the HSK corpus


Cantonese

My only goal is conversational Cantonese, enough Cantonese to speak about daily life and general matters. I don't want to have philosophic discussions nor political debates.

passive:
   Listening to television, radio, and movies to get the general idea of what they are talking about.

active:
   Ability to speak a limited conversation about daily matters.
1 person has voted this message useful



Everplayer
Diglot
Groupie
China
Joined 5047 days ago

69 posts - 85 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin*, English
Studies: Japanese, German

 
 Message 63 of 169
10 October 2011 at 3:14am | IP Logged 
zhanglong wrote:


我觉得普通话一点难可是广东话太难了!



Somehow this sentence sounds very strange. I may use the following alternative:
我觉得普通话有(一)点儿难,可是广东话更 难。
It is like you probably won't say "Mandarin is difficult, but Cantonese is too difficult.", instead, you say "..., but Cantonese is even more difficult."

一点 should be 一点儿, in both speaking and writing, though omission of 儿 doesn't sound so strange (but wrong) in some southern areas where Mandarin is essentially "a second language".

Note that I put an additional 有 in front of 一点儿难. "一点儿" and "有一点儿" are very different.
"一点儿" = a bit of (something), for quantity only. (Also used in front of negation. That is another story.)
"有(一)点儿"" = a bit, as an adverb. (Usually used for something unsatisfactory.)
2 persons have voted this message useful



zhanglong
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4927 days ago

322 posts - 427 votes 
Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese

 
 Message 64 of 169
10 October 2011 at 3:39am | IP Logged 
Thank you so much!

That is very useful.

Indeed, I am in 广州, where the local people think my Mandarin is amazing and the non-local people think my Cantonese is great.

In both cases, they are probably flattering me a little, in other cases, their second language skills may not be all that good.

I haven't developed an ear yet for what is "good" or "bad" so your comments are invaluable.

When documenting my Mandarin writing, I'll put up examples of what I think is correct Chinese and leave it to those with more experience to correct me.




1 person has voted this message useful



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