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Is French really easier than English? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 17 of 131 13 June 2011 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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@(All of you guys), what the *** is a phrasal verb?
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| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5453 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 18 of 131 13 June 2011 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrasal_verb 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 19 of 131 13 June 2011 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hehe, thanks! Haha, is this what's hard about English? I don't find them difficult, but then again they also exist in Norwegian.. Are they a Germanic phenomenon or? Edited by Haldor on 13 June 2011 at 11:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5228 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 20 of 131 14 June 2011 at 4:59am | IP Logged | |||||
Huh. Again, I have no experience, but this doesn't really seem that hard to me. When I memorize a list of verbs for say, Spanish, a bare majority of them make any sense to me. Tocar, correr, hablar, destinar--yeah, if I know Latin (which I do, but I didn't when I studied Spanish), I might know which ones of these "make sense," but otherwise, it's just brute memorization. Phrasal verbs at least seem to make some sort of sense, sometimes, whereas otherwise, it's just brute memorization. Edited by ScottScheule on 14 June 2011 at 5:00am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6582 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 21 of 131 14 June 2011 at 6:10am | IP Logged | |||||
Part of the problem is memorizing where to put the preposition. To use the Wikipedia examples: "Switch off the lights" or "Switch the lights off". Both correct. "The stove gave off fumes" but not "The stove gave fumes off". Preposition must come after the verb. "I cannot tell the dogs apart" but not "I cannot tell apart the dogs". Preposition must come after the object. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lucky Charms Diglot Senior Member Japan lapacifica.net Joined 6949 days ago 752 posts - 1711 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German, Spanish | Message 22 of 131 14 June 2011 at 6:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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I can't comment on French, but I don't think native speakers of a Germanic language are
in a very good position to judge the difficulty of phrasal verbs (although even as a native English speaker, I find them a nightmare in German). Please look at the following lists (the words are chosen off the top of my head and the definitions are very rough) and try to tell me that differentiating between these usages is easier than memorizing different unrelated verbs for each meaning (although learners will get to do this as well, since many of these phrasal verbs have Latin-derived synonyms!) pick - to choose pick up - to take from the floor, to give someone a ride to their destination, to recieve a signal, to learn something quickly pick up on - to notice something subtle pick out - choose one from among a group pick on - to bully someone pick off - to target individuals in a group one by one pick at - to dig at something, e.g. with one's fingernails pick apart - to criticise every aspect take - to make something one's own take away - to confiscate or remove take off - to undress, to remove, to depart, to be wildly successful take on - to assume (an identity, etc.), to tackle a challenge take up - to require all of a resource (time, etc.), to start a hobby take out - to remove, to borrow something from an institution, to kill take down - to dismantle (decorations, a building), to make a note of, to remove someone/something from power take back - to retract a statement, to remind someone of the past take apart - to dismantle take something out on - to make someone/something the target of one's negative feeling take over - to take it - to endure (criticism, etc.) take after - to resemble take in - to absorb information, to assume care of someone in need, to decieve, to hem throw - to pitch something throw away - to dispose of throw out - to dispose of, to expel someone from a place throw on - put clothes on hurriedly throw up - to vomit throw in - add to a deal throw off - to undress hurriedly, to lose a pursuer I'm sure you can think of more. Most of the usages are either marginally related to the root word or not at all, and many have multple meanings that have nothing to do with each other. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5766 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 23 of 131 14 June 2011 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
The first time I consciously heard of phrasal verbs was in Spain - German ESL teaching seems to assume that Germans will just pick them up. Only that most of us don't. So even though the German system is quite similar to the English one, it is still one of the parts of English that are very difficult to master. And I know it has to be more difficult for someone who doesn't speak a Germanic language. (By the way, if Norwegian has this, I assume that Swedish and Danish do so too; Dutch and German have phrasal/compound verbs as well - what about Icelandic and Faeroese?) Regarding word order, I didn't even think of the additional difficulty in that because when I finally remember which preposition I have to choose I also remember where it belongs in a sentence. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Haldor Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5615 days ago 103 posts - 122 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Swedish Studies: French, Spanish | Message 24 of 131 14 June 2011 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmm, I don't know about the phrasal verbs, perhaps placing the words are difficult. On the other hand, in Spanish or French, you're just gonna have to learn yet another verb, phrasal verbs are logic and easily used once you've figured them out, I think. But then again, I'm from Norway, and we also have them..
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