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Too many people selling language courses? | ||
Tags: Business | Language Program | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6010 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 17 of 61 16 June 2011 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | ||
Leaving aside the particulars of comprehensible input, I would agree that too many of the materials on the market are too short and bitty, and there really aren't many self-study serieses that cover the equivalent amount of language as a full degree in the subject. But I don't really think there is a gap in the market, because consumers don't make their decisions based on the genuinely important factors. Consider Arguelles's review series. He puts a lot of value on the number of words used in a book, which he mistakenly describes as the number of words "taught" by the book. Many expert reviewers have a checklist of things they want to see, but being experts, they really can't tell whether they've been explained in a way that makes sense to a beginner. Most consumers also want to start without putting too much investment into the language, hence the ongoing success of the mass-market TY and Colloquial courses. Now this is an exceptionally unhealthy situation, because beginners end up with material that just isn't very good, and the beginner stage is when the learner is most reliant on good instruction. It also results in lost learners, because they decide on the grounds of the cheap material that language learning isn't for them, so never proceed to the comprehensive (and expensive) stuff. We've also got the perennial box size/perceived value problem. The MT foundation course could fit in two four-DVD cases, but they put it in four two-DVD cases, doubling the size, because the buyer equates physical size with quantity of material. They could even fit the whole thing in a single MP3 CD in a slimline jewel case, but it wouldn't sell as well. Some of the courses out there use disproportionately huge boxes just to make themselves look attractive to buyers. You can't maintain that proportional growth to sell a boxed set on the scale you're talking about. We just don't buy small. Now, French in Action is not aimed at the home market, but as a school syllabus. But then again, most of the really comprehensive textbook serieses are aimed at the classroom market, not the home learner. I guess the learner that's willing to stump up for better learning is going to go for instructor-led classes -- a "premium" language home-study course is always going to be a hard sell.... 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| DavidW Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6525 days ago 318 posts - 458 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Italian, Persian, Malay Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Portuguese, German, Urdu | Message 18 of 61 16 June 2011 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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"They could even fit the whole thing in a single MP3 CD in a slimline jewel case, but it wouldn't sell as well."
Interestingly I spoke with a language book distributor a couple of weeks ago, he told me exactly this. Also that it would get lost on the shelf. I am going to put out a number of bilingual books of 'The Little Prince' with full audio in both languages. I myself know the value of these materials, but I'm full aware that other people will need to be 'educated' as to it's value before they buy it. I will also put detailed instructions as to how it can be used at the beginning of the book. They need not be expensive, I suppose they will retail around 15 UKP in bookshops with the CD, about half the cost of a TY course. I really don't know what the market is like for language materials that require lots of time and aim high. But there again there are many people studying languages at universities, institutes, adult education centres that might take an interest to such materials. It will be interesting to see what happens. It is a shame that people in general are not better educated about the realities of learning a language, and how to go about it. At the very least, it is a very rewarding passtime and can teach you alot as you peer into someone elses culture, country and way of life. For those who have the luxury, it really is something special and worthwhile. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6581 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 20 of 61 16 June 2011 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Most buyers of language programs have no idea what makes a good language program. Thus they buy the crappy
ones. Fill it with enough false progress ("Now you've already learned how to ask for directions in French!"), you can make the learner believe they're learning lots and they'll write great reviews and talk about the program to their friends. Later they'll realize it was a lot harder than they thought and become disillusioned and quit, but by then they've already done lots of free marketing for the program. The large amounts of quitters also means there is almost no market for programs aimed at intermediate leraners. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| etracher Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 5333 days ago 92 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Modern Hebrew, Russian, Latvian | Message 21 of 61 16 June 2011 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm not sure that the issue is that there are too many products per se. Ideally, many different products of decent to high quality ought to mean that consumers have a good choice of materials at reasonable prices. Perhaps the real issue is that we have a certain number of people who are either 1) using blatantly false and misleading packaging to sell material that has been collected through electronic means and was actually written by someone else as if it were revolutionary new material, or 2) using electronic media to promote their supposed methods as learning materials at often exaggerated prices. The first scenario is a scam, plain and simple. The second is more complicated. Some of these people have dedicated a lot of time to developing their languages and the study skills that they have employed. In many cases I am sure that they believe they are providing a valuable service. In some cases they may have convinced themselves that they have discovered secrets to language learning that other people don't know. As someone else mentioned, the amount of time that they have dedicated to preparing the material might even justify some of the apparently exaggerated prices. Some people might find the material to be extremely useful for them as well. However, in most of these cases, as I said before, I cannot find any reason to justify the expense, as I think that the same material can be found cheaper, or for free. I don't think that Moses, for example, is scamming anyone; but neither would I spend money for FLR DVDs. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| translator2 Senior Member United States Joined 6918 days ago 848 posts - 1862 votes Speaks: English* | Message 22 of 61 16 June 2011 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think there is a vast difference between wanting to teach A language you have mastered and wanting to teach multiple languages merely to demonstrate what a genius you are.
The new "methods" are all about taking all the "work" out of learning a language. Don't learn grammar, that's boring. Don't study words, that's stupid. Let the language flow. I am all about enjoying yourself, but for crying out loud, some things are supposed to be challenging. This is how you end up with people with extreme gaps in their grammar and vocabulary and are functionally mute in their language because they do not know the nuts and bolts of the language and when they try to use it for anything other that talking to and about themselves in front of the youtube camera, like an improperly-built machine, they fall apart. The truth is that you need BOTH a solid foundation in grammar AND years of immersion experience to assimilate that knowledge. In the end, there is no substitute for hard work. There is no short-cut to fluency. It does make for great marketing though... After all, would fluencyinfiveyears be as attrative as fluencyinthreemonths? You probably won't see something like: This new book will teach you everything about the language from basic to super advanced in just five hours a day for 10 years. Buy now! Edited by translator2 on 16 June 2011 at 11:29pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 23 of 61 17 June 2011 at 12:48am | IP Logged | ||
My impression is that this applies to languages other than the popular (in my view rather hackneyed) choices for outsiders learning foreign languages (basically >99% of the world's languages are left in the cold). If I were to start learning Spanish, I could avail myself to a gross abundance of material catering all levels of students. On the other hand I'm fighting for scraps when I look for structured learning materials in Slovak for foreign learners past the beginner's level. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7014 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 61 17 June 2011 at 12:49am | IP Logged | ||
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As has been mentioned already, the problem isn't limited to language learning. It seems that in our current "instant gratification" culture, both hard work and patience go out the window.
Those who have unsuccessfully tried to accomplish what they have allowed themselves to believe to be very easy (e.g. learn Japanese in a week, lose 20 kg, make millions by the click of a mouse, etc - all completely stress and pain-free) will claim that it's not them that are at fault but that the method was wrong and only a fool would bother carrying on with it. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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