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IQ needed to be a hyperglot | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| Magnum Bilingual Triglot Retired Moderator Pro Member United States Joined 7116 days ago 359 posts - 353 votes  Speaks: English*, Serbian*, French Studies: German Personal Language Map | Message 97 of 164 17 July 2006 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
The fact is there are differences in race. Some races have higher IQ's than other races. Your attack on Red Raider is unfounded. Would you give care if the discussion was "What genetics does it take to be over 6 feet tall"? Just because IQ is what is being discussed you want to everyone to repeat the party line. When people know their limitations and find ways to live within their means, everyone is happy. Imagine a couple comes to you, and these two people are fat and not muscular. Their child is also over weight and can not do a push up. These parents want you to help their child become a sports superstar in soccer, to become like Beckham. Would it be nice to fool that child into thinking "if only you work hard enough, you can be like Beckham". All you will do is frustrate that person. It is not a nice thing to do. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| KingM Triglot Senior Member michaelwallaceauthor Joined 7190 days ago 275 posts - 300 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Russian | Message 98 of 164 17 July 2006 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It is controversial because IQ implies superiority and we like to believe that everyone is equal, even when that is inherently not true. The fact is, certain ethnicities do average higher on the bell curve. Because it is "scary" does not make it go away.
Having said that, it still doesn't say whether or not individuals are intelligent or not. After all, there are plenty of polyglots in Africa and other places considered "low IQ." I personally know a guy from Senegal who speaks four languages fluently. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6856 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 99 of 164 17 July 2006 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
So what. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6856 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 100 of 164 17 July 2006 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't think you are understanding what I meant by "scary". What scares me is what humans historically have done with this belief in racial superiority. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6856 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 101 of 164 17 July 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
If you went to the island of Curacao, you would meet an entire population, mostly of African descent, that speaks four languages fluently. In his first post, Sigiloso had said that India and Africa falls under the 85-100 IQ scale.
This is really interesting, because I work for an Indian-owned company. They're outsourcing to the U.S. basically. Our general manager, Indian, speaks four languages. He says this is the standard through out the country. He is quite critical of U.S. English, because he says it is not as sophisticated as Indian English. I nearly spit up my latte when he told me that, but nonetheless, I have found what he has said to be painfully true. This isn't a case of one or two "exceptions" to the rule. Our development department would not be in India if they weren't intelligent enough to write software code. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Malcolm Triglot Retired Moderator Senior Member Korea, South Joined 7314 days ago 500 posts - 515 votes 5 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Latin | Message 102 of 164 17 July 2006 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's not a very fair example, as professional sports are competitive and there can be only a few superstars. It would be better to say that the parents want you to help their child get into really great shape, have a sculpted physique like a gymnast, and become very fast and flexible. Let also say that the child also wants this and is willing to do all the work necessary. Of course he'd be able to get into great shape! I've heard so many stories of people who started out fat and unhealthy and later went on to get into great shape (not just losing weight, but also building impressive physiques or mastering martial arts). The saddest thing would be for someone who really wants to learn languages to give up on it because everyone else is telling him he's not smart enough. Anyone (except perhaps those with disabilities) can learn one foreign language, and after you've learned one there's no reason why you can't learn another, and another. Limitations like the one mentioned above are almost always illusory. I'd much rather have a low IQ and no self-imposed limitations than a high IQ and all sorts of limiting beliefs about what I can and cannot do. I happen to have a high IQ, but I don't think this matters for most languages. Memorizing vocabulary and Chinese characters is really quite simple (time consuming and not easy, but simple), and if you can learn one word or character, there's no reason why you can't learn another, and another until you know all the common ones. I don't think this has anything to do with IQ. A former classmate of mine would always claim to be "stupid". I remember having a lot of trouble explaining things to him and getting him to see patterns. However, he spoke fluent Spanish and Mandarin, both of which he learned in his early twenties. His Mandarin is especially good and he can read books and even classical Chinese. He said that most people think he's really smart just because he learned Chinese, and they automatically assume he's a part of the gifted few who have language talent. He added though that any idiot can learn Chinese, you just have to stick with it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Magnum Bilingual Triglot Retired Moderator Pro Member United States Joined 7116 days ago 359 posts - 353 votes Speaks: English*, Serbian*, French Studies: German Personal Language Map | Message 103 of 164 17 July 2006 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
I've known many people who are born with the genetics to gain weight no matter what they do. They eat less than others, but they gain weight quicker. I also know a girl who can eat big cheeseburgers with extra large french fries and milk shakes and she is thin like a pencil. You can't tell the "fat" one to just try harder and exercise more. At some point the "fat" one must understand reality, and live within his limits. I think learning languages is similar, except there are more variables. For example, you mentioned Chinese. I speak three languages, and am learning a fourth. But I doubt I could ever get good at Chinese because of the tones. It would drive me crazy to make mistakes, and my ear is not good enough to distinguish so many tones in conversation speed speech. Aristotle wrote "To thy own self be true". Life can be frustrating. If we know our own weaknesses, we can succeed without hitting the same brick wall over and over. Could I learn Chinese? Probably, but it would be extremely difficult and would take me twice as long as someone with a good ear. But if I decided to learn Chinese and my teacher or mentor expected me to learn at an "average" pace, I would be as frustrated as the fat child trying to fight his genes. I remember a guy from highschool who desperately wanted to attend a prestigious university. His parents dreamed of him attending Harvard or Yale. It was his whole life, it was everything he wanted and dreamed about. The problem was his IQ wasn't very high. I happened to be good at math, and he was in my math class. This poor kid studied before school, during lunch, at every free second. He sacrificed so much to get a "B" grade (an 8 out of 10). Math came easily to me, I never had to do more than a few problems and it clicked and I could do any others. I got straight A's in math. It drove this kid mad because he tried so hard and could not do as well as others who worked less. I don't know what happened to that kid, or if he ever made it to Harvard. I doubt he did. Maybe his life would have been happier if he decided to be a "C" student, and not try so hard at something out of his reach. Edited by Magnum on 17 July 2006 at 9:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6856 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 104 of 164 18 July 2006 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Your "friend" sacrificed and got Bs. I don't see what's wrong with that. Maybe he didn't get into Harvard, but I bet this guy got into a fine university nonetheless. With that kind of attitude he must be a success. He's not afraid to work hard. Good on him.
I'm a firm believer in trying for things out of reach. That's how we really stretch ourselves and grow. I have tons of data points, personal and beyond, that show that this philosophy works. The swimmer Amy Van Dyken had said this (I'm paraphrasing) after she won I don't know how many gold medals in one Olympics: "Reach for the stars. You might only end up on the moon, but that's not so bad." A good teacher sets reasonable expectations. One's ethnicity or race shouldn't determine those expectations. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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