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Kat’s Log {TAC 2013 *jäŋe / *ledús} | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 9 of 39 20 October 2012 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I too wonder about the accuracy about the idea about using the nominative as part of a negated existence. In addition, the partitive isn't always the object of a verb involving an emotion even though it often is. In addition to pidän / tykkään s(in)usta (elative) there's rakastuin häneen (illative). On a related note, the "object" of adjectives describing emotions are usually in cases other than the partitive (e.g. Pöysti on kiinnostunut Maisasta (elative), Repomies oli vihainen Pöystille (allative)).
I came to dislike Colloquial Finnish after working through a few chapters and ditched it. The author seems to being trying too hard to make his course different from others just for the sake of being different. The most trouble that I had with it is that the explanations and notation are unconventional and ultimately unhelpful. This will become clearer when you seek a second opinion or clarification on some topic in another textbook for Finnish or the frequently-used reference grammar books for foreigners by Leila White or Fred Karlsson. mick33 wasn't impressed by it either. However if you can make it through the course, then all the more power to you. Its only useful aspect is that it teaches mainly the colloquial language, although "Kato hei", and to a certain extent "FSI Conversational Finnish" also teach similarly. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4863 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 10 of 39 20 October 2012 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with what has been said above. While verbs like "rakastaa", "vihata" or
"inhota" require the object to be in partitive, not all of "emotion-related" verbs do. I suggest trying to remember by heart the case that you need to use for each verb (at least for the most commonly used verbs in speech), just as the article in wikipedia suggests: "Rektion asettamat vaatimukset ovat usein sanakohtaisia ja mielivaltaisia; toisin sanoen ne ovat historiallisen kehityksen tulosta, joka ei ole ennalta pääteltävissä lausuman merkityksestä käsin. Tämän vuoksi vieraita kieliä opiskeltaessa rektio usein vaatii runsasta ulkoa opettelua, mikäli opeteltavan kielen rektiosäännöt ovat erilaisia kuin oman kielen." Rough translation: The requirements imposed by case governance are frequently word(verb)-specific and "mischievous"(they "decide" on their own); in other words, they are the result of historical development, which is not to be readily deduced from the meaning of the sentence. For this reason, case governance requires plenty of learning by heart while studying foreign languages, if the foreign language to be studied has different case governance rules than one's native language. A nice example I remember is "jäädä", which means to stay or remain somewhere. It was difficult at first to remember that I had to use the "Illatiivi" case for this verb (for example, "jään kotiin" I stay home (lit. I stay to home). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4863 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 11 of 39 20 October 2012 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I forgot that, other than the free wiktionary, you can use this book to check on the case
governance of words: http://www.amazon.com/Tarkista-sanojen-rektioita-vieraana- opiskeleville/dp/9517920075/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=135076179 0&sr=8- 1&keywords=tarkista+tästä Edit: tried to make the link look nice but failed :S Edited by caam_imt on 20 October 2012 at 9:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Phantom Kat Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5064 days ago 160 posts - 253 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Finnish | Message 12 of 39 23 October 2012 at 2:43am | IP Logged | ||
Ahh, I see. I'll keep that in mind. I wasn't aware there were so many cases where it wasn't used. I'll definitely take a note of that and go through the cases in my book to pick out any explanation they have on emotions. I know what you mean, though I haven't gone through Colloquial Finnish much. That's the reason why I'm using it: for the colloquial language. I still prefer Finnish: An Essential Grammar over it and rely on that when it comes to grammar. I've used it multiple times to clarify things my beginner's book just skims through (like consonant gradation). I dabbled a bit with FSI Finnish, and I want to continue with it soon. As for Kato Hei, I doubt I'll ever get my hands on that, haha. - Kat 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Phantom Kat Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5064 days ago 160 posts - 253 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Finnish | Message 13 of 39 23 October 2012 at 2:52am | IP Logged | ||
Okay, will do. Thanks! I've been meaning to make a list of such verbs to keep on hand, anyway. Funny you should mention jäädä. The only reason that verb is ingrained in my head is because for the longest time I kept seeing jää in songs and wondered, "Why are Finns always singing about ice?" I'll make a note of this sentence for future reference, too, because I see myself using this a lot. As for the book, that looks very helpful, but I don't think I could afford it. So sad. - Kat Edited by Phantom Kat on 23 October 2012 at 2:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 14 of 39 24 October 2012 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | ||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Phantom Kat Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5064 days ago 160 posts - 253 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Finnish | Message 15 of 39 30 October 2012 at 5:19am | IP Logged | ||
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October 29th, 2012
Finnish Midterm studying, weekends with parents. And no Finnish studying? Well, nothing significant other than reviewing. Good thing I have my a roommate who constantly reminds me that I need to update my log! Today I began to input the vocabulary (and expressions) of my Beginner's Finnish books, chapter by chapter, into Anki. My plan is to review the deck for that chapter then go back and hear the dialogue (either normal speed or slowed down for repetition). That way the words will be reinforced with sound and sentences in context. There's a lot of words I still need to integrate, so it'll be fun. I only did the first chapter today, so I'll try to make decks for the rest of the eleven chapters sometime this week. My format for them is English ---> answer with the Finnish equivalent. (I actually found a typo in the vocabulary list: opiskeilja. Haha, I can't believe I've never noticed this!) Does anybody know how to take the audio of a CD and input it into an Anki card? I read that it can be done with Audacity, but I don't know the specifics. I read over the Genitive Plural because it's about time I start to talk about more than one object in my sentences (other than objects in the nominative plural). My Beginner's book has a rather short table with declined nouns, including the Gen. Plural, and my grammar book also has a couple of examples. I'll use that for now for making sentences. By any chance is there a website somewhere that declines nouns? I found a nifty website for declining verbs in Finnish (it's great to have something to double check on), but I haven't found anything of the sort for nouns. Google Translate is the best I have for now. Oh yeah, I also wrote this sentence while being bored in class. I temporarily forgot how to decline maito (the first instance in the sentence), and I had two hours for my class to end to check my Beginner's book. Such torture! Minä näin sinut eilen, muttet nähnyt minua. Halusin kertoa sinulle että tarvitsemme maitoa. Meilla on leipää ja voita, mutta meilla ei ole maitoa. For some reason I always want to write haluisin. I guess my mind just wants to reiterate the fact that it's in the past tense. (Feel free to correct anything you see here! ^-^) It's pretty cool to see that once I only wrote random Finnish words on the margins of my notes. Now, I can write entire sentences with no reference. Sure I repeat a lot of the verbs and subjects, and there may be mistakes I may not catch, but it's getting me somewhere! That's all for now. I'll update tomorrow! - Kat Edited by Phantom Kat on 30 October 2012 at 5:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 16 of 39 30 October 2012 at 5:35am | IP Logged | ||
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For most vocabulary, Wiktionary for Finnish nouns will contain each word's inflections as a table. Many of the Finnish verbs on Wiktionary also come with tables showing all of the conjugations and relevant non-finite forms (i.e. infinitives and verbal nouns/gerunds).
On a related note there's a morphological analyzer for Finnish, FINTWOL. You type in a Finnish word as you encounter it, and it'll tell you what case (if a noun or adjective) or tense/mood (if a verb) it is. Unfortunately this isn't quite the same as Estonian's Eesti keele süntesaator or Northern Saami's Generator of paradigms where you enter the citation form of a word and then get a list of the possible inflections. I think that this is what you have in mind when you mention the automated verb conjugator for Finnish. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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