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Kat’s Log {TAC 2013 *jäŋe / *ledús} | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| bela_lugosi Hexaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 6455 days ago 272 posts - 376 votes  Speaks: English, Finnish*, Italian, Spanish, German, Swedish Studies: Russian, Estonian, Smi, Latin | Message 17 of 39 30 October 2012 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | ||
"Meillä on leipää ja voita, mutta meillä ei ole maitoa." :) I'd also like to specify that "haluisin" is the colloquial form, whereas in standard written Finnish it should be "haluaisin". Keep up the good work! :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4560 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 18 of 39 30 October 2012 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
(You probably don't want to worry about small details like this, but perhaps you'll find this interesting.) In this case, I think it would sound more natural to say "Minä näin sinut eilen, mutta sinä et nähnyt minua." I believe this is because you use the same verb in both clauses, and you're creating a contrast between the two: I did, but you didn't. In fact, it might be enough that the "action" is the same/analogous, because I would also clearly prefer "Minä näin sinut eilen, mutta sinä et huomannut minua." over dropping the 'sinä'. On the other hand, "Huusin perääsi, mutta et vastannut." sounds perfectly natural to me. "... mutta sinä et vastannut." would work just as well, but it would slow down the pacing of the sentence somewhat, giving it a slightly different nuance. I wonder what my fellow native speakers have to say about this... Edited by sans-serif on 30 October 2012 at 2:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 19 of 39 30 October 2012 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Not a native but that's what I thought too:) and "mut sä et vastannu(t)" is enough to avoid the slowdown in my head :D in normal speech, the full forms of minä, sinä are often a bit too emphatic, but that's exactky what's needed especially when the verb is the same.
But don't get discouraged, Kat! It takes a fairly small amount of reading before things like this become natural! Edited by Serpent on 30 October 2012 at 10:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Phantom Kat Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5064 days ago 160 posts - 253 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Finnish | Message 20 of 39 31 October 2012 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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@ Chung: Wow, thank you so much for the links. I never wandered into Wikitionary, so I had no idea such categories existed. That’s going to be especially useful for declining nouns since it seems they provide tables. FINTWOL will definitely be helpful when it comes to reading. I have some Finnish children books that will be benefit from this.
@bela _lugosi: How could I miss those umlauts? (That’s what I get for always using “I” and “you” as the subjects of my sentences.) Thanks for the corrections! I’ll take a note of them. @san-serif: That makes sense; it sounds less clunky. I think I prefer huomannut for the sake of not sounding repetitive with the verb. I see your point about creating contrast, so I’ll keep that in mind. I’ll write a couple of more sentences for practice. Thanks for the help! One thing books don't really teach you is whether something sounds natural to the ears of a native speaker. @Serpent: If anything, this is making me excited to continue. :) It’s exciting to concentrate on something beyond grammar mistakes. That just means I’ve made progress of some sort. I didn’t study yesterday (Finnish studying, at least), but I did have two questions I wanted to ask: 1) How would one say “Mexican-American” and other similar labels (that may not be the word I’m looking)? How do you combine them correctly? 2) I have the first book of Finnish for Foreigners (Just the one with the dialogues and grammar sections that has a faded scene in the front. I had one that was small and blue, but I lost it.) I’ve only glanced through it. Has anybody used it or have anything to say about it? I know there’s a second one after this that is for intermediate learners (mostly Finnish). - Kat Edited by Phantom Kat on 31 October 2012 at 3:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 21 of 39 31 October 2012 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ei kestä.
It seems to depend on what you're describing. For people of some kind of heritage, it reverses the English order with the first element in Finnish representing the "new" place in genitive singular. The second element is that ethnic name ending in -lainen E.g. - Amerikansuomalaiset "Finnish Americans ~ America's Finns" - Amerikanmeksikolaiset "Mexican Americans ~ America's Mexicans" - Australiansuomalaiset "Finnish Australians ~ Australia's Finns" - Kanadansuomalaiset "Finnish Canadians ~ Canada's Finns" - Suomenruotsalaiset "Fennoswedes / Swedish-speaking Finns / Finland Swedes ~ Finland's Swedes" However this type of designation is a bit different when you're translating what can be thought of in English of the first element ending in -o and the second one ending as an adjective in -ese, -ian, -ic or similar. - Ranskan–Preussin sota "Franco-Prussian war ~ France's-Prussia's war" - Suomalais-ugrilainen (not Suomalainen-ugrilainen) - "Finno-Ugrian ~ Finnic's/Finnish's-Ugrian" (e.g. Suomalais-ugrilaiset kielet - The Finno-Ugric languages) 2) I've completed most of Finnish for Foreigners 1 (up to chapter 35) and think highly of the course. However to make it a viable part of your study plans, you also need at least the workbook since the textbook has no exercises. Then there's the audio for the textbook's dialogues, the workbook's dictations, and the exercises in the book of oral drills. That small blue book that you mentioned makes me suspect that you had the book of oral drills. If you can get the workbook/exercise book(s) and the audio, you'll have a solid old-school course for learning standard Finnish to something like the start of B1 after the first volume complete with the conventional understanding/rationalization of grammar unlike the new-fangled and quirky approach taken in "Colloquial Finnish". Otherwise, stick to what you have now already. Finnish for Foreigners 1's textbook isn't that good on its own other than as a reference manual for basic grammar, and a little bit of practice in reading as you browse the dialogues. Edited by Chung on 31 October 2012 at 4:56pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4863 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 22 of 39 31 October 2012 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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For your first question, I would say "amerikanmeksikolainen", meaning that you are an
American of Mexican descent. A similar structure is used in the case of Swedish-speaking Finns, "suomenruotsalainen". However, a Finn might be living permanently in Sweden, or have Finnish descent but Swedish nationality. In this case, the term would be "ruotsinsuomalainen". By virtue of that example, I would say that "meksikonamerikkalainen" would also be valid. However, these terms sort of have a main "place of residence" (country+genitive) and the "cultural heritage" (meksikolainen, suomalainen, etc.). Saying "amerikkalaismeksikolainen" or "meksikolaisamerikkalainen" might make it more neutral, since the word is a combination of two demonyms, instead of country+heritage. HOWEVER, I'm not sure of this. Native speakers' and Serpent's help are appreciated :) Edited by caam_imt on 31 October 2012 at 4:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4863 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 23 of 39 31 October 2012 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oops, you were faster than me, Chung. Could you also comment on my "analysis" :) ?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4560 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 24 of 39 31 October 2012 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's a tricky question actually. We call Swedish-speaking Finns suomenruotsalainen and Swedes of Finnish heritage ruotsinsuomalainen, so I suppose amerikanmeksikolainen might be the correct word. The other alternative that comes to mind is meksikolaisamerikkalainen, which is something of an anglicism, I suspect, but it makes sense as a word, so I see no reason not to use it.
Interestingly enough, meksikolaisamerikkalainen != meksikolais-amerikkalainen. The former means "Mexican in America", the latter "half Mexican, half American". Likewise, maito-suklaajuoma is a drink made from milk and chocolate, while maitosuklaajuoma is made from milk chocolate. (EDIT: I'm ashamed to admit that this is the best example I could come up with on the spot. :-D I hope you get the point.) Edited by sans-serif on 31 October 2012 at 5:49pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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