|
 |
Learning a language by watching TV? | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Music, Movies, TV & Radio |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5829 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 65 of 134 13 January 2009 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Well it's a personal aim because there is no logical alternative!
-I don't want to sound like Abba or the 'Swedish chef' (the only people who appreciate foreign accents are those who don't have them..) -I don't want to speak Cockney (and don't know how) and there is no reason why I would speak any other regional UK accent. -I have never been to the US, so the idea of speaking with an American accent is proposterous. So far as I can tell, this leaves plain BBC accent as a sensible choice. This also happens to be the accent that I was taught in school and more or less how most of my friends speak. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6934 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 66 of 134 13 January 2009 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Your reply to the first point negates your second point, but let's get back to the issue at hand. My main statement was that it is an entirely natural thing to aim for the same register in a foreign language as one normally uses in one's native. Cordelia says pretty much the same thing - there is really little else one can do, unless one is aiming to act out a fantasy of being someone else in a foreign language, I might add. As for snobbery, I personally see nothing wrong with it in controlled doses. Humanity has long figured out the relative worth of various activities and behaviors, and I see no reason why this cumulative experience of our species shouldn't be allowed to affect one's judgment of oneself and others. It should be done with caution, but the fact remains - doing nothing but watching TV is just a less painful form of lobotomy. The result is no less devastating. Edited by frenkeld on 13 January 2009 at 6:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6430 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 67 of 134 13 January 2009 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
No; I used the past tense in the second point, so it doesn't; if I'd used the present tense, it would be a negation, but I did not.
While I'd argue that one must do some adaptation due to differences in cultural, I'd largely concede this point.
I'd disagree with almost every point here on technicalities, but no matter - the overall principle is one I can agree with. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5868 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 68 of 134 13 January 2009 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Mate, you attack me for little good reason.
I said nothing against the Professor except that he was perhaps shy. I have the utmost respect for his methods, and the number of languages he has aquired. My only point is that *I* and I assume many others, learn a language to speak to PEOPLE as opposed to just read in it. People speak the colloquial form of the language. You do not find the colloquial form in high-literature. Therefore an over-emphasis on reading high-literature at the expense of colloquial sources (like TV and film) is not going to bring you closer to the way the language is spoken.
Well I guess those people you mention dont make friends or date easily then. I will leave them to be lonely and bitter on their own. See, the reason I learn languages is for the rich friendships and cultural understanding that comes from them. To me that is what life is about, and why I learn languages. I am not forcing those values on anyone else though, just expressing my own.
No, I said that to affect a Perisian accent in Montreal when I have never lived in Paris would make me feel like I am trying to be Toffy and Posh. Let me explain this: In the 1960's in Quebec people were ashamed of the way they spoke French. Then a playwrite named Michel Tremblay wrote a play called "Les Belles Soeurs" entirely in Montreal colloquial French. Tremblay celebrated Montreal French. His message was "We are our own country, our own people, and we need not cower before the French as spoken in Paris, feeling like inferiour uneducated peasants". And it started a nationalist movement as other Artists started creating their art in the Montreal dialect of French such as Robert Charlebois and others. When Les Belles Soeurs premiered in Paris, it met rave reviews, and the French audiences understood every single word. You see France is a far away country that dumped Quebec in order to take possession of the sugar in Matinique. When the Quebecois arrived in Quebec, they all spoke 17th century Parisian French (which includes saying "moé" for "moi" at the time). Parisian French has changed, since ... is Quebec its own country, or should it be chasing the latest version of Parisian French as if Paris is the cultural capital of Quebec in order for people to not heap scorn upon Quebec and its people? Well they decided "enough! We are proud of our language, of our people, of our country. We celebrate our language." There is even a feeling that it is a pity that they share their language with France, a country that has produced so many cultural riches (of the Voltaire kind) it can not be competed with, because if the Quebec people had their own distinct language, then they would never be forced to feel shame in their country, but could step forward into the world with pride. [You will note that Voltaire himself referred to Quebec as "quelques arpents de neige" (A few acres of snow) when encouraging France to dump it for something more profitable like sugar in the Bahamas.] Now, in such an environment to learn French in order to live in Montreal, and to consciously choose the modern Parisian accent without reason (such as having lived there) like some dedicated follower of fashion, is to say to the Quebecois "I find the French spoken here beneath me", and would make me feel like extremely self-conscious and ashamed of myself, and I would feel that I am being snobby, or toffy, and giving them a subtle rebuff every time they speak in Montreal joual and I reply in Parisian. With me? The Parisian accent also happens to sound camp-gay in the mouth of a male in Quebec. This combined with the historical situation of the Francophone workers working for the Anglophone bosses going back generations, and the fact that I am Anglophone, speaking to them with a cultured Paris accent that I learned in Montreal while aschewing the "International French" that certain socio-economic groups speak in Montreal would not work well socially, believe me. It is not just that it would not work socially, but I would not wear it well with comfort. I am comfortable in my identity in speaking accented Montreal French. And there is nothing wrong with that.
An Italian sausage maker and a Persian Rug shop owner are perfectly good people to talk to.
Edited by SlickAs on 14 January 2009 at 12:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| SlickAs Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5868 days ago 185 posts - 287 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French, Swedish Studies: Thai, Vietnamese | Message 69 of 134 13 January 2009 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
No arguement at all. That BBC accent is probably the right one to go for. The accent does sound beautiful. It is just that although BBC newreaders, journalists etc might speak with Recieved Pronunciation while they are on the radio, when they are at home they will speak a Standard English, complete with colloquialisms that they do not use on the radio. My only point is that to only listen to the stuffy BBC Radio is to forgoe completely the colloquial form of the language. Even "the Queens English" that Charles, William and Harry speak, although Recieved Pronunciation while making an address, will, behind closed doors be littered with Old-Etonian style colloquialisms. BBC Radio will not teach you these. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| maya_star17 Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5906 days ago 269 posts - 291 votes Speaks: English*, Russian*, French, Spanish Studies: Japanese | Message 70 of 134 14 January 2009 at 4:10am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Speaking of the TV method for learning foreign languages, by the way, I'm currently trying out an experiment whereby I'm attempting to "figure out" the Japanese language via television and DVDs.
I've started a blog about it: http://yellowexperiment.blogspot.com It's brand new... I'm hoping to get more stuff written on there ASAP :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6002 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 71 of 134 14 January 2009 at 4:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
In theory, this is a sound standpoint. However, in practice it's often handled very wrong. Lots of books say that may I...? is the "correct" way to ask for permission and that can I...? is just a "colloquialism". But the overwhelming majority of people use can I...? -- how can we dismiss what about 98% of people (IIRC) say as colloquial and define what 2% of people say as "the norm"? Furthermore, if you consider greetings to be part of the basics, it's impossible to avoid colloquialisms -- greetings are by their very nature colloquial. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6002 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 72 of 134 14 January 2009 at 4:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
The term "high standards" is inherently snobbish, I'm afraid, given the context. Just think about it: if you wanting to speak in BBC English is having "high" standards, then wanting to speak like a Cornish lighthouse keeper must be having "low standards". Which means, logically, that the Cornish lighthouse keeper is "below" you, so you are looking down on him -- ie you are better. That's snobbery in my book. 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
