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Homogenik TAC 2012 Polish Team Żubr | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4822 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes  Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 1 of 115 09 October 2011 at 5:19pm | IP Logged |
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I'm learning polish in a manner I would call intensive (although it could be more intensive I suppose) : I study
every day for a few hours. I also dabble in mandarin but I suppose this log will focus on my polish as it's my main interest and I have concrete objectives connected to it, and personal attachments. Link to the main TAC 2012 Żubr team http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=30356&PN=1&TPN=1 Polish I've been dabbling for years in polish as my mom is a native. I picked up an Assimil book in 2007 and began to do that (without the cds), but it didn't go very well because I was so busy with other things and the approach didn't motivate me. I need to understand things or I become frustrated and discouraged and Assimil's numerous but unorganized grammar notes drove me mad. I did it seriously for a few months, then abandoned for a few months, then I got back to it a few months (starting again from lesson 1), and dropped it, and so on for a few years. In 2010, I said, that's enough of that, I need a course to focus myself. Obviously, where I live (Quebec city) there was no class available in colleges, universities, etc., so I put up an ad. I met two girls, the second one being the most professional in terms of teaching, but I couldn't begin really as my mind was completely unfocused at the time (my father had recently died and I was in depression). So I dropped that at the time and only came back to it a year later, april 2011. I met the same girl with the firm intention of achieving a decent level of polish. I had already bought a few books but she recommended me a series she thought was better, more contemporary, accurate, completely in polish and interesting and even though it was kind of expensive I bought that (from Poland). It's three levels (A1, A2, B1) and each one is separated in two books, one is a workbook (and each has cds so everything was covered). Thanks to my previous dabbling, the first lessons were very easy so I did maybe 3 of those a week, which was very encouraging. Grammar was covered also so my need for things to be explained was fulfilled. I've been keeping up with this series, seeing my teacher once a week for 1h30, and doing a few other things on the side. Here are the resources I've been using : Hurra Po Polsku series (levels A1, A2, B1) Hurra Po Polsku. Discovering Polish (grammar book in English, very nicely put together and made for foreigners, user-friendly, so incomplete but useful) Nous apprenons le polonais (a good method I used before starting my classes, simple with many drill-like exercises, but in the end kind of boring ; I didn't get very far through it but may go back to it later) Teach Yourself (I've been using this as a secondary workbook since it contains many exercises but I haven't focused on it very much yet) Dictionnaire polonais-français, français-polonais de poche Larousse (I use this less and less because it's just not very good. Generally, whenever I look for a word, it's not there! It's useful for certain expressions but is mainly a waste of time. There aren't good french-polish dictionaries — that I know of and that are on sale here in shops). Collins Polish dictionary & grammar (I just bought this and find it very useful. All the words I look for so far are in there, useful examples are given when needed, presentation is nice, the grammar announced in the title is misleading in my opinion but the 48 pages of grammar it contains, even though simple, can be good if you have no other grammatical resource for polish). Dictionnaires polonais-français, français-polonais de poche par Bernard Hamel (I have used these books and it shows : I had to construct a cover for the polish-french book as it was getting ridiculous. Very well done and quite complete with perfective and imperfective verbs generally well presented. Contains many many examples of uses of words. The main drawback is the size of the books : too small! The print is terrible and I'm getting tired of wincing when searching.) Assimil. Le polonais sans peine (I have two editions of this course with different exercises and dialogs so basically I have two different books. They are well done I suppose, just not enough for me as a main learning resource. The humor is nice. The first version contains some slight errors though, such as accents going the wrong way. I have started using it again just last week to complement my main course and I'm doing it with the recordings I found at the library : they are quite boring and the male speaker is rarely speaking clearly... I use it mostly for practice and to catch some beginning vocabulary I would have missed in my main course. I do the same with Teach Yourself). EuroTalk. 5 programs (I have used this software especially in the beginning and it was kind of fun, but not very useful in the end. The vocabulary exercises are very limited, especially considering the price you pay for this kind of software. The presentation is quite dated and annoying too, so that doesn't help. I put it on sometimes when I'm too tired to actually learn anything and just want to do some polish in laid-back mode). Czasownik polski, Wiedza (a book containing all verbal conjugations, very useful, all in polish and made for poles, easy to use as most of these books are). Dictionnaire de la déclinaison des subtantifs polonais/Dictionary of polish declensions by Stanisław Medak (excellent resource with a large index covering most nouns, referring to a complete declensions table. Clear, easy to use). Book2 (I've been using these recordings more and more. I find them generally clear, to the point and useful. When I can't sleep, I put them on at a very low level. When I walk, I put them on and repeat the phrases.) Anyway, sorry for the long post but I guess that's how it goes when you start a log! I'll keep some for another time! http://how- to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30356&PN =1&TPN=1 learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30356&PN=1& TPN=1">http://how-to-learn-any- language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30356&PN=1&TPN=1 language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30356&PN=1&TPN=1">Lin k Edited by Homogenik on 23 December 2012 at 6:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 2 of 115 09 October 2011 at 7:24pm | IP Logged |
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Like you, I spent an age dabbling in Polish before finally getting serious last year.
So well done for starting your log, I look forward to seeing your progress unfold. By the way, a couple of good books I use to practice sentence making are: 1) 'Verb Forms in Bilingual Exercises and Tests' by Stanisław P.Kaczmarski. 2) 'Slownik konwersacyjny Języka Angielskiego' [A Practical English-Polish Conversational Dictionary] by Piotr Ratajczak & Niell Harvey-Smith. Each book contains hundreds of bilingual sentences. I usually put my hand over the Polish sentences and try to interpret from the English texts. I find it helpful for choosing the correct conjugation, case and word order. As well as consulting online dictionaries I find 'Podręczny Słownik Polsko-Angielski' [Jan Stanisławski & Małgorzata Szercha] reliable and I frequently refer to it if I'm in doubt over other definitions. Or if I want to tease out a nuance between similar words. The copy I have is only Polish > English. Powodzenia! Edited by Mooby on 09 October 2011 at 7:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4822 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 3 of 115 10 October 2011 at 12:05am | IP Logged |
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Hey Mooby, thanks for the encouragement, same to you.
I'll look for the books you mentionned but I think I already have something similar (in french) I forgot to put in my first post (along with 2 others). It's the first from the following : Polonais. Réponse à tout, Georges Riegl (in this short book are phrases in french on the left, and their polish translation on the right, that's all. I haven't used this yet, at all, because it seemed like something more useful at a more advanced level. I don't like very much that the book features no organization, no order whatsoever, the sentences are just lined up without any categorization. I didn't really know what to do with it but I'll follow your suggestion.) Grammaire de la langue polonaise, Henri Grappin (it's a rather old book and kind of small for a grammar book, and I just got it so I haven't really checked it out yet, but it seems easy enough to use although incomplete in terms of details, and grammar problems are often just that, details. I wish I could find something equivalent to the french Bon Usage...) Podręczny słownik Polsko Angielski, Jan Stanisławski, Małgorzata Szercha (1973) (incidentally, this is the book you mentioned. I have it and I adore it, it's amazing, has every word I look for, except the more contemporary ones, and features thorough entries). Bez problemu (this is something I bought in Poland. It's a complete course with book, recordings and a really interesting software program that I could never actually use because it doesn't work on MAC and of course I didn't know that when I bought... should've looked more carefully, n'est-ce pas? Well, for anyone with a PC I'm sure it's a very good course. There are three levels, I only have the first one. I listened to the recordings though and they're very well done. The voices are nice too and not as boring as Assimil, for a comparative. I believe the software features voice recognition for pronunciation practice so that can be a good thing if a learner has problems with this aspect of the language). As for online dictionaries, I consult ling.pl mostly. I don't have internet at home so I need my books :). I also listen a lot to audiobooks or radio theater recordings of books I like. I mostly listen to a radio recording of Moderato Cantabile by Marguerite Duras in polish though, as I love this recording. I also bought some polish translations of her books but I can't read them yet. I have polish music and I watch polish films and a tv series I just bought, Kasia & Tomek, which is really good because it focuses on common dialogue with very little action and simple presentation (static shots, no editing in each scene). MANDARIN As for mandarin, I began to dabble in it recently, last september, so it's still all very fresh. I decided on a whim even though I've been curious and fascinated about asian languages for years, especially the writing. I did decide to learn the language although I don't kid myself that I could become fluent in any way, not soon at least. If I ever get very good in polish, then I would put more effort in mandarin but until then I guess I want to build something like a primer. I began to learn some pronunciation basics and I think I'm not very good, especially at recognizing double tones : that's just brutal right now (I use a little online quiz, see below). Anyway, I think I'll focus on learning characters for now as that's where my first interest was. I like to write them as well. I haven't found a main course book to use and I'm not seeing any teacher or attending any class of mandarin so it's kind of unfocused right now, but I suppose that could change if my primer dries a little quicker than anticipated and if I find a resource that I considered good enough to get involved with more thoroughly. Here are some resources I've been dabbling with : Mandarin Tone Drill (this website features a little quiz, well two quizzes actually, to practice tones and double tones. It's kind of cheap looking and simple but the importance is in the function, not the look : http://www.shufawest.us/language/tonedrill.html) Memrise (now, this website is just wonderful. It helps to learn characters, their meaning and their pronunciation gradually but, I think, quite fast. I don't know how helpful it can be in the long run but with regularity it could be very much so. It's also quite addictive and fun since it's presented as a game. Colorful, fun, user-friendly and featuring contributions from it's numerous users.) Enter Zon (this is basically a video game on the net to learn mandarin. I haven't gotten far yet but I think it looks amazing. It's too bad it isn't downloadable as I can't play at home : http://enterzon.com/). Dictionnaire concis français-chinois, chinois-français (Presse commerciale/Larousse, 1994) (this is a small pocket dictionary but the size of characters is decent. It features characters, pinyin and good entries as far as I can tell. It's a cute book too). Manuel de chinois moderne 1 et 2 (1977) (This is a rather renowned course I got cheap and it seems quite dry. Maybe it will become useful someday). Learn to write chinese characters, Johan Björksten (I got this on the basis of Amazon comments that praised it but I find it not so useful because the author seems too focused on the art of the writing, and the importance of writing with a pen instead of a pencil. I too would like to be artful and I'll try to but a pen just isn't practical when you're practicing writing mandarin characters for the first time in your life and you do a lot of it on the bus sandwiched in between people.) FSI Chinese (I began this course and am still at the beginning : pronunciation. I thought it rather brutal at first, but I'll hang on to it as it's free and features clear exercises. I have a big problem with their contradictory approach though. On one hand they say one must learn by communicating and not focusing on rules, but on the other hand they cram the recordings with linguistic terms and explanations regarding pronunciation. Kind of a lot to take, a linguistic lesson AND pronunciating mandarin double tones : brain. not. com. pute.) Le chinois aujourd’hui, Hongju Yu (I got this very cheaply too and, from what I can tell, it's an adaptation of the Manuel du chinois moderne made by a man who teaches chinese here in the province of Quebec. It comes with a poorly made recording but seems sort of interesting. Very dry though). Lire et écrire le chinois, Larousse (I didn't believe much could be gained from this but it seems nice enough and a lot of the characters I see lesson through lesson I remember and recognize. It's very simple.) I also got recordings of Assimil, Harrap's (from the library) and Book2 that I listen to sometimes. Edited by Homogenik on 10 October 2011 at 12:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5564 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 4 of 115 10 October 2011 at 3:52am | IP Logged |
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Hey good luck with your Polski Homogenik! Good to see another new personality around here taking an interest in
Polish. Will be checking in every now and again to see how you're going and looking forward to seeing your progress. Also here's a few online dictionaries which I find to be quite a big help and also very reliable. Słownik Polskiego Slangu - Polish Slang Dictionary Polish Dictionary: University of Pittsburgh Powodzenia! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4822 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 5 of 115 10 October 2011 at 9:35pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the suggestions, we never have too many online dictionaries.
Today I worked a few hours on my main lessons (book 2, lesson 3) and the theme is history which lends itself well to the study of dates, of course. At first it was numbingly confusing and I never got it right (yesterday especially), but today things seemed to be kind of breezy. There was a lot of text to read and I was expecting a ton of new vocabulary (lessons 1 and 2 had so many I couldn't believe it), but surprisingly I had very little searching to do and even without knowing exactly the meaning of about 4 words I could understand everything so that was a proud moment. Whenever I read I do it out loud of course and I usually repeat each text about 2 times after the initial reading and "cleaning up" (identifying unknown words). I especially wanted to practice out loud the dates as it can be kind of tricky : it's either (18 september 1982) osiemnastego września tysiąc dziewięćset osiemdziesiątego drugiego roku or w osiemnastym września tysiąc dziewięćset osiemdziesiątym drugim roku (if I'm not mistaken). I think I usually get it right but of course since I'm on my own for now I can't verify each time. I'll have to call my mom later and figure it out. I'll have to work more on this lesson tonight and I wish I would finish it (but I doubt it) since I'm late on my schedule. Each book of the series has 20 lessons and I want to do one each week. That's the general rhythm I've had to far but the lessons are getting a bit tougher now, and longer. I want to finish book 2 by the end of january and book 3 by the end of may. The first book took me 4 months so I guess it's a reasonable goal. After the first book though, I wanted to make sure I reviewed the beginner's material well enough so I bought an electronic workbook from Poland, Gramatyka? Dlaczego nie?! Ćwiczenia gramatyczne dla poziomu A1 by Joanna Machowska, which features more than 200 pages of exercises covering, supposedly, everything that an A1 student should be familiar with. I did that quite intensively for nearly 2 weeks and finished the whole book while grading myself with points (like a real exam). I ended up with something like 85% so I was satisfied and moved on to the next book in my main course. As for new vocabulary, I have a ton of flashcards I made myself but I never use them anymore. Before, I used them especially during transit but now I mostly listen to recordings. I took a lot of time to do these cards but even so I bought a flashcard set. That was an impulse buy and ended up being quite useless since I already had flashcards. It's a good product though (got them here : http://www.ilovepolish.com/). Now, I use the software Que for computer customizable flashcards (for mac, http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/33776/que). It's similar to Anki I guess but it's simpler in my opinion. Anyway, I have about 1500 words on it already but of course I don't know all of them. I try to play that game everyday form polish to french, from french to polish, and I usually get a good score but sometimes I wonder if such a technique is really useful. Sometimes, I get a little dizzy from all the words I don't know and the repetition. Maybe flashcards and flashcard-like programs are better used in moderation. Edited by Homogenik on 10 October 2011 at 9:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4822 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 6 of 115 12 October 2011 at 4:36pm | IP Logged |
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Yesterday I did a few pages in my books with mainly questions of verbal aspects (perfective or imperfective, past
tense) and it's going quite well, I finally understand about 90% of the time although sometimes it's still unclear for me. But this morning I've been stuck with an exercise of reading comprehension. The way this works is the book presents an authentic article from a magazine or paper and I have to read it and fill out a short table with various contents. The difficulty is that the article is not meant for a learner of my level and thus is filled with unknown vocabulary. I have trouble with just breezing through the text and trying to "get" it without understanding everything (I assume that's the point of the exercise). I always end up looking for all the words in the dictionary and that takes forever. Anyway, it's gotten me a little discouraged this morning so I stopped after a while. I'll try again later without looking in the dictionary to see if I can actually do this exercise the way it was meant to be done. I'm behind on my schedule so I'm feeling a little disappointed (maybe that's why I began this log, to try and motivate me and oblige myself to move forward). I should have finished lesson 3 last friday and I should be doing lesson 4 by next friday, but that's not going to happen, I just have to adjust myself. As for mandarin, my dabbling limits itself to Memrise these days. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4822 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 7 of 115 13 October 2011 at 6:22pm | IP Logged |
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I'm getting quite at ease with saying dates which surprises me as it seemed so very hard in the beginning, only a
few days ago. I practiced a lot. I finished the reading comprehension exercise I talked about before and didn't succeed really in understanding quite enough of it, but I don't care, I think it's better to move on to the next thing instead of feeling inadequate and moaning about it. I'll finish my lesson 3 today, I have an audio exercise (dialogues from which I must retain certain precise informations and write them down), in which the characters are all foreign people speaking polish with really noticeable accents, so it's kind of tough but also funny. I've also done a bit of Assimil (first edition of two) up to lesson 25 (in two days last week). I'm doing the "active" phase for these lessons right now. I know pretty much everything in these lessons of course but it's just that I want to be thorough and it's always good to finish something you started. I have a polish class tomorrow so that's good. My teacher was in vacation in Poland the last few weeks so I didn't have any class. She bought books for me (good dictionaries!) so I'm excited about that. As for mandarin, I'm still doing the Memrise thing and I have about a 100 words right now, it's going well. I'm thinking of getting Pimsleur though (I suggested to my library that they buy it, it's cheaper that way for me ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 8 of 115 13 October 2011 at 8:57pm | IP Logged |
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I agree that if you understand, say 80% of your exercise, it's better to move on rather than
get bogged down and lose momentum. The same stuff will doubtless crop up again anyway. At the moment I'm building my active vocabulary (an excuse to avoid grammar that I know I'll have to face again very soon). I've got 1230 words in Anki. I have the bad habit of checking loads of dictionaries (as well as google) to check the right definitions. This is slowing me way down. Even slower is my habit of collecting synonyms - in the process of defining one word I'll stumble across another (or three) and then feel obliged to Anki them all. It probably stems from impatience to know all the minutiae at too early a stage, instead of getting the broad picture. Good luck with the Mandarin, I think my grey cells would implode if I tried tackling that simultaneously! Edited by Mooby on 13 October 2011 at 8:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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