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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5336 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 41 of 73 17 November 2011 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
If they can speak and write both or all languages to a native level I am still impressed. I have seen so many examples of people not mastering both languages. I spoke yesterday with two Pakistani men and one Tamil girl, all born in Norway. The girl spoke perfect Norwegian, no trace of an accent. The men spoke with a slight accent and a simplified vocabulary, and admitted to not being able to write a letter in their parents's mother tongue. Growing up with two languages does not mean you know both well. You need either talent or effort or both to do that. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5228 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 42 of 73 17 November 2011 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 43 of 73 17 November 2011 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
People who know me would say I'm quite the joker. Making puns is one of my creative outlets. As a result, I make puns whenever I see an opportunity, and I can quite easily make puns in Japanese, for instance. Yet, I'm FAAAR from mastering the language. You can make puns or you can't -- and many people can't do so in their L1 -- but it has nothing to do with mastery. It's simply a question of looking for puns admist the knowledge you already have. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| DesEsseintes Triglot Newbie Ireland Joined 5184 days ago 33 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English, French*, Spanish Studies: Croatian | Message 44 of 73 17 November 2011 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Don't think I mentioned that. What I mean is that I like people who set goals for themselves, and who strive to achieve them. I'd be more impressed by someone who has a job, a family life, friends, etc... and who decides to learn Farsi just because he heard it once in his life, than by someone who grew up in a multicultural environment. That's all. Edited by DesEsseintes on 17 November 2011 at 3:38pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| DesEsseintes Triglot Newbie Ireland Joined 5184 days ago 33 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English, French*, Spanish Studies: Croatian | Message 45 of 73 17 November 2011 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
Or you may simply, out of sheer modesty or lack of self-confidence, be underestimating your capacities in Japanese. ;) No sarcasm intended, just think it over. Again, that's is simply my opinion, and I may very well be wrong, but having the capacity to play with words is something different. That was also Nabokov's point of view, and main goal when struggling with his English. Your Japanese might just simply be way better than you are willing to admit. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5383 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 46 of 73 17 November 2011 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
The only way I could reconcile the two notions would be to significantly lower the bar of what "mastering a language" means. Unless we use the word "pun" differently. Yesterday, a Japanese speaker spoke of Korean kimchi (a food item). In Japanese, this becomes kimuchi. Now, kimochi means feeling, and "kimochi warui" means literally "feeling bad". I don't like "kimuchi", so I said "kimuchi warui" meaning that kimchi is bad... but it also sounded a bit like "it feels bad" or "it's unpleasant". Everyone got the joke. Anyone with beginner or intermediate Japanese could have made the joke. Puns can be made easily without mastery. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| DesEsseintes Triglot Newbie Ireland Joined 5184 days ago 33 posts - 68 votes Speaks: English, French*, Spanish Studies: Croatian | Message 47 of 73 17 November 2011 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
We're talking about the same thing then. That kind of pun requires : - a dense vocabulary - some form of "language culture" - the ability to think rapidly - the ability to think directly in your target language - self-confidence in this language - a good accent, good-enough at least to make you understood immediatly by natives
Or there might simply exist a huge difference between this forum, and real life. When I wrote "no sarcasm intended", I did mean it. To make a long story short : - Many world-class polyglots frequently browse over this board. They're particularly impressive, they're nice, and to top it all off, they're modest. A side effect of their presence may lie in the fact that other members can at times feel intimidated, and doubt their own capacities. - Heaps of members here dote on debunking people who pretend they can speak "perfectly" a given language : "Oh I have this colleague who spent 4 years in Germany, he thinks he speaks German but really, after 15 minutes I noticed he still had a very slight accent, and he didn't know this or that word" or the run-of-the-mill "yeah, she speaks English and Spanish, but come on - easy languages", etc... (I could have added other examples of those usual nitpicky and unbearable posts, like language families, etc...) There's one thing you shouldn't forget : that's the Internet... As a result, I've noticed that on this forum people had a constant tendency to minimize their language skills (unless they eventually manage to express themselves better than a native...), while I do believe that modestly telling people that you can't do something you're actually good at is just as stupid and dishonest as claiming that you can do something that you actually can't. But that's just not how this forum works. Hence my previous post, your Japanese is simply way better than you're willing to admit on this forum, or to yourself. Edited by DesEsseintes on 17 November 2011 at 5:04pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5768 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 48 of 73 17 November 2011 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Puns often live from phraseology; you take a common phrase and replace a part of it with a word that sounds similar, but betrays the listener's expectations. Because I learn the most common phrases first, I can easily recognize them and when I learn a word that fits, I can make such a pun. (And because I'm an oyaji at heart I don't hold back.)
The pun Arekkusu mentioned presents itself to the avid punster. I know, I made it myself when I learnt what kimchi is and what it's called in Japanese. I remember having made a pun in Mandarin when my active vocabulary was about twenty words. Of course, I don't want to belittle Arekkusu's skills, but I am very aware that my own Japanese can't be called conversational, and my Mandarin is still stuck at the 'I completed level I of Pimsleur, and picked up a few dozen words here and there' level; eg. complete beginner: I fulfil none of the requirements for CEFR A1. But I love making puns, it's a kind of team sport in my family. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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