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Questions Regarding Arabic | ||
Tags: Choosing a Language | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| TalkativeHoopoe Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 4739 days ago 11 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Spanish, Persian, Pashto*, English | Message 9 of 93 29 November 2011 at 3:14am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks, Humdereel, for answering all those questions...and I have more. :P
I was wondering, what is it that makes Maghrebi so distant from the others? Also, what exactly is Hassaniya Arabic? Lastly, what do you think makes Arabic hard? Thanks again. Sorry for so many questions. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| translator2 Senior Member United States Joined 6911 days ago 848 posts - 1862 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 10 of 93 29 November 2011 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Awesome answers Humdereel!!
I have several Arabic textbooks and resouces and sometimes it is difficult to tell whether a particular word or grammatical construction is MSA or dialect or if it is a dialect, which dialect it is. I understand that MSA and dialect can be mixed together under certain circumstance. However, what happens if as a non-native speaker of Arabic, you mix two or more dialects together? Would native speakers find this silly and amusing or would they just assume you are speaking a dialect different from their own? Edited by translator2 on 29 November 2011 at 8:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 11 of 93 30 November 2011 at 2:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Good questions, TalkativeHoopoe and translator2.
I was wondering, what is it that makes Maghrebi so distant from the others? Compared to my experience with other dialects, my experience with Maghrebi is less notable (I'd say between 4-6 months; one in Morocco, another two in Tunisia, 2 weeks in Algeria; a few friends from there). However, one of the notable things in the pronunciation of some Maghrebi dialects is that the vowels are eaten. For example: MSA: kitaab Maghrebi: ktb Plus, some Maghrebi speakers, especially Moroccans, from my experience, talk very fast, so imagine shorter words at a higher speed, and you already have something that makes it more difficult. However, another reason is that the Maghrebi dialects are more notably influenced by languages other than Arabic, especially Berber, French, and sometimes even Italian and Spanish. While all dialects borrow to different degrees from other languages (Egyptian has some Italian influence, Levantine some French; Iraqi with Persian; Gulf with Persian, Hindi/Urdu, etc.), there's no doubt that it is most notable in Maghrebi. As for other reasons, I'm not entirely sure. Some native speakers from the Middle East have told me that they might "completely" understand a few phrases in Maghrebi, but then somehow have "absolutely no idea" with the next. Indeed, it is a complicated thing to describe. Something worth adding: Libyan seems reasonably intelligible to some Middle Easterners, especially the eastern Libyan dialects. While Libyan definitely shares a lot in common with the other Maghrebi dialects, it also seems to be less influenced by Berber and French. I myself could understand much of Libyan after studying Egyptian and Levantine, given some minutes to truly absorb it. Also, what exactly is Hassaniya Arabic? Hassaniya Arabic refers to the dialect spoken in Mauritania. Honestly, I have no experience with it whatsoever. However, I have read that it is a highly divergent dialect, so I assume that it is not intelligible to the Mashriqi dialects. Lastly, what do you think makes Arabic hard? The Diglossia: The fact that MSA has one function and the dialects another does indeed add to the challenge. Also, the several dialects, although not generally too distant from one another, can require time to absorb for non-natives, since we're not always used to the changes in pronunciations or the pecularities of the dialects. While the dialect situation isn't as horrible as it is sometimes made out to be, it does add to the challenge. The Grammar: It's not that the grammar is a monster. It's just complex, different, and there's lots of it. However, one thing you'll find is that Arabic is very consistent. Even with things such as broken plurals (which are not at all regular), learning to get used to them ends up making it feel consistent. The Vocabulary: Compared to other languages, such as French, German, and Spanish, Arabic doesn't have that many cognates with European languages or English. Of course, some modern and medical vocabulary came from English and other European languages, but other than that, there is relatively not many cognates. Also, the Arabic vocabulary is voluminous, meaning that there's plenty of it. Plenty of synonyms, and then of course you have to consider the dialects. However, I found the vocabulary to be quite fun because of this. However, with Arabic it is highly recommended that you build a strong vocabulary foundation. However, there are some things that ARE NOT actually hard while learning Arabic, even though sometimes it seems as if it would be daunting. The script, for example, could be learned with 1-3 weeks, maybe even in less time. Pronunciation, while at points difficult, is something that you can get with practice. I understand that MSA and dialect can be mixed together under certain circumstance. However, what happens if as a non-native speaker of Arabic, you mix two or more dialects together? Would native speakers find this silly and amusing or would they just assume you are speaking a dialect different from their own? If you mix dialects or a dialect with MSA, many natives won't find it silly. They'll likely be very willing to help you out with it. However, mixing a dialect with MSA isn't necessarily like mixing Spanish and English in "Spanglish." Typically, it's the most everyday vocabulary (who?what?when?, etc.; everyday items) that can change in the dialects, while higher or less common vocabulary is nearly the same across the board. Now, how does it sound if you were, to say, mix Egyptian with Levantine? Not necessarily "silly", since we as foreigners are not expected to know the dialects anyways. I myself usually mixed MSA and the dialect, or the dialect with Egyptian, especially if I didn't know what the word was in the new dialect I was learning (or if I had doubts). The natives didn't feel troubled or amused by it. Indeed, that's a very good question and it's harder to answer. In all, however, you won't be seen as awkward or silly if you're trying to learn their respective dialect, and mix it with another or MSA to get the point across. TAKE NOTE, however, that there's an extent that a non-native can go without being seen as "forced" or fake. If you go too far, as in you try to use too much slang or try too hard to sound like the locals, then you might not sound natural to them. Yes, learn the colloquial dialect, but don't try to BE the native. Simply understanding and being understood is the issue, and you don't need to speak in slang to be understood. 11 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| TalkativeHoopoe Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 4739 days ago 11 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Spanish, Persian, Pashto*, English | Message 12 of 93 01 December 2011 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks again for the answers, Humdereel. I've decided that I'm definitely going to start learning Arabic. :)
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 13 of 93 02 December 2011 at 3:09am | IP Logged | |||||
Great to know! If you need help deciding on materials or need further advice, I'm willing to help. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 14 of 93 02 December 2011 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh.Oh. Soooo not good. Here nway has been so eloquent on the topic of Mandarin that I have asked for a start kit for beginners for Christmas, and here you go making me want to run for my Arabic books. I learned a little Arabic when I was a teenager, and have forgotten all but a handful of words. I so do not need to be led into temptation. (Which is my way of saying, absolutely fantastic answers :-) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 16 of 93 03 December 2011 at 3:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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@Solfrid Cristin: Thanks for the kind comments. I'm simply glad to inform people about one of the languages I love. :-) Edited by Humdereel on 03 December 2011 at 3:38am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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