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Questions Regarding Arabic | ||
Tags: Choosing a Language | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| TalkativeHoopoe Tetraglot Newbie United States Joined 4739 days ago 11 posts - 13 votes Speaks: Spanish, Persian, Pashto*, English | Message 41 of 93 13 December 2011 at 2:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Cool story, Humdereel!
I've already gone through half of the alphabet! :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes  Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 42 of 93 13 December 2011 at 3:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, indeed, it's very interesting to experience the culture through its various mediums, including entertainment and the popular media. It's true that there aren't very many translations of Arabic shows let alone transcripts since so many are in the dialects, but as different parts of the world grow closer because of technology, I'm sure these resources will become more available. @TalkativeHoopoe: Thanks for the kind comments! Anyway, I'm short on time today so I can't explain my trip to Syria completely yet, but I can at least start it. Six months after being at home in the U.S. again, I got another study abroad opportunity during the summer. It was shorter and thus cheaper (it would be about three months), but I thought, "Let's go! I might not get another opportunity to go!" Of course, I and my family were worried that I was going to get too much culture shock in just a little over a year (first Egypt, then Syria), but I just had to go. I had always read about the beauty of the country and was interested in the Levantine dialect as well. So in a few weeks, I flew to Damascus. To be continued... 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| KSAKSA Groupie Australia Joined 5137 days ago 65 posts - 99 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Arabic (Gulf) | Message 43 of 93 13 December 2011 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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^^ oh you tease! :) Edited by KSAKSA on 13 December 2011 at 10:36am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4741 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 44 of 93 14 December 2011 at 5:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Arabic and Persian are too new too be considered classical languages. As for classical Chinese, it's because it's too different from the modern language. Until 20 years ago a reformed form of Classical Greek was the official language in Greece (until they abolished the diglossia). Latin is still used in Vatican. Sanskrit is still spoken in some villages in India (while classical Chinese is not). This is the full list of classical languages: Classical Sumerian (literary language of Sumer, ca. 26th to 23rd c. BC) Middle Egyptian (literary language of Ancient Egypt from ca. the 20th century BC to the 4th century AD) Old Babylonian (The Akkadian language from ca 20th to 16th c. BC, the imitated standard for later literary works) Classical Hebrew (the language of the Tanakh, in particular of the prophetic books of ca. the 7th and 6th c. BC) Classical Chinese (based on the literary language of the Zhou Dynasty from ca. the 5th c. BC) Classical Greek (Attic dialect of the 5th c. BC) Classical Tamil (Sangam literature ca. 3rd c. BC to 4th c. AD, defined by Tolkāppiyam)[3] Classical Sanskrit (defined by Pāṇini's grammar, ca. 4th c. BC) [4] Classical Kannada (language of the Kadamba / Chalukya / Rashtrakuta literature, 4th c.)[5][6] Classical Latin (literary language of the 1st c. BC) But only Tamils find it easy to read their classical language, because the written Tamil hasn't been allowed to change (diglossia). Many Greeks can read classical Greek (be it due to their age [they were schooled before demotiki] or because they learned classical Greek at school. I don't know how well speakers of Modern Hebrew can understand the Classical Hebrew. But from what I know Chinese of today can't really read classical Chinese without decades of learning. Edited by Camundonguinho on 14 December 2011 at 6:06am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 45 of 93 16 December 2011 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Continued...
Although my studies would actually based in the University of Aleppo, we were to stay in Damascus for the first week to start a joint research project with Damascus University (it was an environmental/pollution project), before heading to Aleppo. The plan was to start off in Damascus for one week, move to Aleppo for two months, and then return to Damascus to continue the project. When I made my first steps in Damascus, I couldn't help but think that it was a beautiful city. On the way to our living quarters, we passed by the beautiful Umayyad Mosque and Ancient City of Damascus (though we did not visit these at first). My first week in Syria was similar to my first week in Egypt, although perhaps busier. However, I made my move faster and after the third day, I went to visit a local market with some of my friends, as I had done in Egypt. Again, I tested my MSA to see the reactions of the Syrians, and to my surprise, they didn't make note of it as much as the Egyptians. A few of them actually responded in MSA without flinching, a few others in their Syrian dialect. Either way, they were extra thrilled at my knowledge of the "eloquent" speech. Before arriving in Syria, I had learned that Syrians took more pride in MSA and Classical Arabic than some other Arabs, and from what I could tell, it was true. To my further (frolicking) surprise, I noticed something else: when I sat down and listened to the Arabic around me as I had done in Egypt, I found that I would usually understand 60-90% of what was being said, unlike my transition from MSA to Egyptian. Indeed, it seemed true that going from MSA and a dialect to a new dialect was a smoother slope. After the first week, we made our way to Aleppo. Again, I was captivated by the city and moved to our living quarters. Here, I made some Syrian friends, and like my experience in Egypt, I would often watch Syrian shows with them. One of them was their copy of Bab El-Hara, but there were several more. I found that I understood more than when I started the Egyptian dialect, but I still needed help with several parts. We also listened to the music of Levantine artists, such as Fairuz, Shams, Majida El-Roumi, and Julia Boutros. As you can tell, my experience with learning Arabic in Syria was a parallel to my experience in Egypt, except that of course Syria has many different things to offer as Egypt did as well. On weekends, us students would usually go on excursions to the sights of Aleppo and the rest of Syria, such as Palmyra. It was a very culturally engrossing experience. While it took me two months to get comfortable with more-than-basic Egyptian, it took me about a month for Levantine. With my exposure and practice of the Syrian dialect, I found myself understanding things from other Levant countries as well. To be continued... 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 46 of 93 17 December 2011 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Continued...
One thing I found interesting about the Syrian dialect was the stretching out of some vowel sounds. For example, when I'd hear a Syrian say "Hayyah" (life), it'd sound more like "Hayaaaah". It was a subtle feature, but nonetheless noticable. At one point, I decided to practice my Egyptian Arabic in Syria, to see how the natives reacted. They would virtually always understand me, except when I busted out an expression that only Egyptians would use commonly. Many of the Syrians also praised how I knew there standard/classical language as well as the most popular dialect, although they didn't word it in the same way as westerners do. For the second month, I continued practicing and exposing myself to the dialect. Interestingly enough, although Levantine and Egyptian aren't too distant, they do tend to change word order at times, which would've been confusing had I not continued exposing myself. I continued watching TV shows and listening to music to improve my skills. Since we would sometimes go on excursions, (once we went to visit Hama, another time Homs), I also got to test how I understood Levantine in different parts of the country. My third month followed the same routine, except I spent it in Damascus. In all, I definitely found going from MSA and a dialect to a new dialect much easier than from MSA to my first dialect. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Fortwenster Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4977 days ago 24 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchC1 Studies: Arabic (Written) | Message 47 of 93 17 December 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Cool stories, but I find it kind of ridiculous that people keep insisting that you need to learn "MSA and a dialect."
If you want to learn Arabic, then MSA should suffice, since most arabs understand it. I'm sorry I keep on saying some silly things, but thsat s what I really think. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Humdereel Octoglot Groupie United States Joined 4970 days ago 90 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written), Turkish, Persian, Urdu Studies: Russian | Message 48 of 93 17 December 2011 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, MSA would suffice if you want to be understood. But if you want to be both UNDERSTOOD and UNDERSTAND what is being said by natives, then it won't suffice. Depending on the dialect, you may understand only some of what is being said. As I mentioned earlier, MSA and Classical Arabic are for unity, power, history, and literature, while the dialects are of intimacy and domesticity. In my honest opinion, if you're only interested in part of Arabic, MSA is enough. But if you want to experience the full glory of the language, MSA will not "suffice." You need both MSA and a dialect for that. If you really like a language, I'm not sure if you only learn what will "suffice." You learn what will give you the best experience, and both forms of Arabic allow for that. 7 persons have voted this message useful |
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