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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4704 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 177 of 204 24 October 2012 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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All languages are easy.
All of them. There are many reasons why people fail, but in the case of Mandarin, 1.5 billion people have not failed to learn Mandarin. They are not all geniuses. Millions of people speak Czech. They are not all geniuses. Millions of people speak Russian. They certainly are not all geniuses. If they can, then I can. And I'm going to make the road as easy as possible. Edited by tarvos on 24 October 2012 at 4:45pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| justonelanguage Diglot Groupie United States Joined 4459 days ago 98 posts - 128 votes Speaks: English, Spanish | Message 178 of 204 24 October 2012 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Um, of those "1.5 billion" (in reality, it's more like 850 million) that speak Mandarin, what percentage grew up speaking the language? The VAST majority.
Languages are easy, yes....for 1 year olds. For 20 year old adults...not so much. Some language ARE harder than others depending on your native language(s). You really think that Italian is going to be as hard for a Spaniard as Mandarin is for an English speaker? Humans can accomplish a lot of things but some tasks are more difficult than others. Is climbing mount everest without sherpa's and supplemental oxygen harder than climbing a 10,000 foot mountain? Is passing HS easier than becoming a Rhodes Scholar?
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| Midnatt Triglot Newbie Czech Republic Joined 4425 days ago 10 posts - 18 votes Speaks: Slovak, Czech*, English | Message 179 of 204 24 October 2012 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, good luck then.
But even the Chinese kids didn't learn their language in 3 months, did they? I speak more than just English, but lemme show you an example of what I mean. I've been learning it going on for 7 years. I didn't really push hard, but I was always the best at any school I went to. Even better than most of local teachers there. I was the one to correct THEM. They have been learning it double or triple the time I have. And yet they were worse than me. And even though I am fluent. There are still non-native English speakers better than me. And there's plenty of them regarding the pronunciation, vocabulary, grammar or smoothness of the speech. My level could be displayed as C1/C2. And still I get angry with myself, when I can't remember a word or something. And that's only English what I'm talking about now. I bet I could get to this level in less than 3rd the time I used now, if I tried harder, but certainly not 3 months, nor a year. That's all. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tmp011007 Diglot Senior Member Congo Joined 6066 days ago 199 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 180 of 204 24 October 2012 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
excuse me? mandarin IS the easiest language ever!!!. Spanish is a pain in the neck compared to mandarin. benny learned to speak mandarin in three months so I bet he learned his Spanish in a weekend. wait no, Spanish is way harder... in three and a half months? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4704 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 181 of 204 24 October 2012 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
Nonsense. Kids don't learn to speak in three months either, it takes them years to speak their first language properly. And they don't have the benefit of tools, dictionaries, translations, and whatnot. Spanish/Italian makes the system transition a lot easier, because they are more similar, but in principle, they are not more or less easy to learn. It just so happens you come from a similar system. Well, then you use the bonus you have.
The first language is always the hardest - it's the first time you adapt to the new system. I had to learn a lot of hard lessons learning English too, but I kind of came from a lucky situation in that regard. I started learning French at age 11 and German and Latin at age 12. French is still the hardest language for me because it's the first one I consciously forced on myself (I never had a choice concerning English). I have been learning French for years, and I don't reach above B2 at all at this point. Why? Because for the first four years, I just did school stuff - then it rotted - then I suddenly had to refresh it. That was the hardest process. But once I had got back into it, within a few months I was up and running and I live with French people. Then I took a class and I felt a confidence boost and now I can say I speak French, albeit with a few mistakes. And I did that in a few months. Do I think Benny speaks fluent Mandarin? I have no idea, I don't speak Mandarin, so I can't judge it. But if he's continuously surrounded by it and has spent 6 months in Taiwan and China, I am sure he speaks good Mandarin, because his methods work for him. And even if it's not C2, that is NOT HIS DEFINITION ANYWAY. He doesn't care. If that's not fluent to you - that is your problem. My fluency is not your fluency. The fact that you're upset you make mistakes when writing English even after years of trying so hard is more indicative of your harshness on yourself than it is of your failure to speak English. I was equally harsh on myself for a long time, and then I decided to just speak French. You know what? It worked, and even in the worst time of my life. So for my part, I am fluent in French, even though I'm not a native. Because I have had meaningful normal experiences in French in my life and thus I feel I can speak it. And that's got nothing to do with the fact my prepositional use is iffy, my vocabulary is a bit limited and I don't always choose the correct tense, because I am 100% sure I am understood in speech. Edited by tarvos on 24 October 2012 at 5:27pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Midnatt Triglot Newbie Czech Republic Joined 4425 days ago 10 posts - 18 votes Speaks: Slovak, Czech*, English | Message 182 of 204 24 October 2012 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm really curious why he's learning Arabic in Brazil, but to each his own. I'm not being harsh at myself. I just don't think anyone is able to reach fluency in 3 months. If I started to learn Dutch now, and talk to you after three months. You could just speed up a bit or talk at normal pace, but using uncommon expressions and I'd get lost. I agree with you that reviewing once rusted language can be really difficult. You just don't know where to start. That's my problem with German. I was kind of forced to choose it when I was really small (8 years old) and I hated it. The approach in school was just wrong. And I have forgotten a great deal of the language. I can communicate in it, but with difficulties and a lot of mistakes in grammar (if I make a mistake in English here and there, I don't really care). And now that I want to review it and become fluent, I have problems with not knowing articles to easy words beginners know, but also not wanting to start all over from square one. I'm not saying Mandarin is the most difficult language in the world, but it certainly is not easy. Each languages (except for Esperanto maybe) has something easy and something difficult and different people may like and find different aspects easy or hard. I don't have a lack of dedication for learning languages, but that can be an aspect too. If someone doesn't like the way Spanish sounds, he will learn Cantonese faster and with more ease. It doesn't make that language easy though. Edited by Midnatt on 24 October 2012 at 5:49pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| justonelanguage Diglot Groupie United States Joined 4459 days ago 98 posts - 128 votes Speaks: English, Spanish | Message 183 of 204 24 October 2012 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree with you about the vast majority of people not being able to reach "fluency" (the high, C1-C2 level that many of use eventually aspire to after years of work/living abroad) in 3 months. There are people that are gifted at languages, whether it be pronunciation, grammar, or vocab memorization. However, I think in my biased opinion that language learning for adults is more hard work than talent.
In some sports, people are just born with an amazing ability. Roger Bannister broke 4 minutes for the mile like 60 years ago and only did 20 miles per week of training, a paltry amount for even that time. (Elite milers do about 60-80 miles per week with weight training, cross training, etc). Roger Federer is a genius at tennis and I would imagine that within a few months of playing he showed a level that people with years of work couldn't exhibit. The same goes with skills like instrument playing. I know people that within a few months of playing piano they had reached a higher level than me with several years of lessons and practice. It's just a natural gift. I personally think that languages are more about consistent effort than natural talent. Of course, I think that some people are just better at some aspects of language than others but I don't know anybody that reaches a C1-C2 level (heck, even B1-B2) in a very short period of time.
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| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4712 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 184 of 204 24 October 2012 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Actually, he explained it at his blog and in his 1st "Arabic Misson" video as well. Basically, he said that he had a bad time in China at the beginning of the last challenge (like 1st month or so), because he could not speak the language, he had no friends, so basically he had nothing to do at all other than study-study-study. On the other hand, he has many friends in Brazil, he speak the language and he can take classes and talk to Egyptian people via Skype just like he was doing in China in person, the difference being that would be a lot less stressful because he can also go out or grab a bite with friends to relax and things like that. I think it's a good idea if you have zero knowledge of the language. In my case, I think I wouldn't do it with, say, French, even if my level is A0, but for being a language close to Portuguese and Italian I could improve a lot better being in France. On the other hand, languages as different as Chinese and Arabic, I think I'd rather study it in at home before going to the country. Edited by fabriciocarraro on 24 October 2012 at 7:14pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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