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Fluent German by the end of the year | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4690 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 25 of 70 13 March 2012 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | ||
I don't think the test is "broken." It looks like the test doesn't test anything beyond the "intermediate" level, that's why. I'm not sure what that level is, though. My guess is B2, give or take one. I took this a while back and probably did about the same as you (maybe a bit worse, even, I'm not sure) and I would guess that I was around B2 then, at least for passive skills. I just retook it now and I missed one question, which I really shouldn't have, but in my defense it was a bit of a trick question, IMHO (they said to identify which word in the sentence is wrong, but in one case the error is in the word ORDER--and in fact represents an easily avoidable mistake that is nonetheless frequently made by native speakers, especially in colloquial speech). I wouldn't worry too much about the results, as this test seems a bit less scientific than some. It would be a good idea to try to figure out why you missed the questions you did, though, and learn from that, especially if they were grammar questions. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| valkyr Triglot Groupie Romania Joined 5186 days ago 79 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Romanian*, EnglishC1, GermanB2 | Message 26 of 70 13 March 2012 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | ||
That's my impression too, it's somewhere around B2. The fact that it only tests intermediate knowledge is understandable. However solving 90% of a B2-level test should yield an intermediate rating not a beginner one. Anyway, it's an irrelevant aspect. The test is still better than the one on Goethe Institute's website. So, my results are as follows: Part I: German Grammar: 73% Hartmut hat das Buch auf __________ Tisch gelegt. I answered "dem", but it was actually Accusative. Shame on me, this was an easy one. Der Urlaub wird sicher toll, ich freue mich schon __________darauf. A. tierisch B. ätzend C. übel D. dufte Meine Antwort? Außer "tierisch" habe ich keine Ahnung was die anderen bedeuten. This is a vocabulary issue. Die Band ist wirklich klasse, auf die Musik __________ . A. schlaffe ich immer ab B. stehe ich total C. sehe ich total alt aus D. schminke ich mir besser ab Again, vocabulary. Part II: German Grammar: 100% Part III. German Vocabulary: 83% Beatrix, ___________ du wie der Schauspieler in Casablanca heißt? Chose "kennst" instead of "weißt". Part IV. German Reading Comprehension: 100% So, most issues seem to be related to vocabulary. I guess I should be focusing more on that. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4690 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 27 of 70 13 March 2012 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | ||
Further to my theme of "not an awesome test," dict.leo.org says that "tierisch" as used here is Ugs. That's good news that you're already on top of the grammar! Once you can handle real-world materials as comprehensible input, I think vocabulary is just a matter of persistence. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| valkyr Triglot Groupie Romania Joined 5186 days ago 79 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Romanian*, EnglishC1, GermanB2 | Message 28 of 70 15 March 2012 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had the weekly meeting today at work. I was the only non-native speaker. I have to
admit, that as far as I've come with my study of German, these meetings are decidedly above my level. I understand no more than 60 to 70% of what's being said. While this is still a step up from the 30% I understood two months ago, it's still not enough to take part meaningfully in the discussion. Also, most of the jokes they make are beyond me. But that's probably too much to expect at B2 level, since some of them may be quite subtle and require much better German or understanding of cultural references, or both. The main culprits are: 1) Speed - at least some of them speak much faster than a regular news broadcast. An interesting aspect, is that even for known words and phrases, I need a second to recognize them. If the speaker is particularly fast, I sometimes don't have time to process all that's being said and fall behind quickly. 2) Accents - I'm in the south of Germany, and the German they speak here has all sorts of weird accents e.g. the 'g' in 'zwanzig' is pronounced like the 'sh' in the English word "short". 3) Umgangssprache - 'gucken' instead of 'schauen', 'nett' instead of 'nicht' and so on. But this is not much of a problem since there aren't too many of them. At least that's what I suspect ... who knows what's lurking in the 30% which escape my comprehension ... I did joke once about recording the meeting and listening to it later on to look up the words, and they replied that I might not find all of them in the dictionary :) 4) Too many speakers - when talking with somebody, or even when two natives talk with each other, I quickly begin to understand them. I need a bit of time to get used to the way they speak, but after a while I get most of what they're saying. In the meeting there are maybe 10 people to follow - different accents, different speeds and everything is much more dynamic, which confuses me. Edited by valkyr on 15 March 2012 at 10:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4690 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 29 of 70 15 March 2012 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | ||
I know the feeling well--I'll suddenly realize "oh, he just said X," and in the meantime, five more words have come out and I missed the first three of them. The good news is, I think that this just gets naturally easier over time. That certainly has been my experience. The bad news is that if it doesn't, I have no idea how to work on it (anyone out there have any ideas)? Hard to complain with doubling your comprehension in two months. Do that again and you'll understand 160%! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| valkyr Triglot Groupie Romania Joined 5186 days ago 79 posts - 112 votes Speaks: Romanian*, EnglishC1, GermanB2 | Message 30 of 70 15 March 2012 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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:) Normally, I would be happy doubling my comprehension within two months. Problem is
... it leveled off pretty quickly. I got up to 60% or so after 3 or 4 weeks. After that, it's been so slow, that I'm not even sure I made any progress. By the way, I listened to the C1 listening comprehension sample on Goethe's webpage and it's a joke. It's dumbed down. Nobody really talks like this. See (or rather listen) for yourself ... http://www.goethe.de/lrn/prj/pba/bes/gc1/mat/deindex.htm You could pass it with flying colors and still be helpless in a real-world situation ... makes me wonder how much these exams are worth. I'm not saying they should include dialect and funny accents, but real-world (real speed) conversations would be a good start. PS: The C2 (Großes Deutsches Sprachdiplom) does have a real conversation, (the speakers are not making obvious efforts to slow themselves down), but still in very clearly spoken German. Edited by valkyr on 15 March 2012 at 11:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4659 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 31 of 70 16 March 2012 at 12:26am | IP Logged | ||
You have identified the problems and here are some partial solutions.
This may help you in meeting or when sitting in group of native speakers, where you are not the focus. Pick your battles - otherwise you could demotivate and tire out yourself unnecessarily. Edited by Majka on 16 March 2012 at 12:31am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4690 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 32 of 70 16 March 2012 at 3:07am | IP Logged | ||
So did you actually do the exam questions according to the exam procedure, or just listen to it? If you don't do the questions it seems a lot easier than it is. Unless you buy into the whole C2="near native" nonsense, I feel like the samples are pretty representative of a certain meaningful level (C2: GDS at least--I don't really know about the others), but it all depends what kind of skill you're trying to test. Language testing is by nature an inexact and somewhat artificial thing. Goethe Institut is clearly trying to test the ability to deal at reasonable speed and at a high logical level with reasonably sophisticated language that is perfectly clear and standard. Having lived in Bavaria, I agree that that has nothing whatsoever to do with getting by with people speaking like Bavarian locals, but that's clearly by design, and not necessarily a problem with the test. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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