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Which country is the worst at languages? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| KimG Diglot Groupie Norway Joined 4977 days ago 88 posts - 104 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Portuguese, Swahili | Message 41 of 72 13 April 2012 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That you think, mirrors some of my thoughts why as example, many Norwegians speak an odd, accented English while being able to understand close to anything possible said by anyone. Possibly it would be a better idea to try teach the kids a "cool" American rather than upper class brittish accent, but, I don't know. It just seems a lot want to say "I'm not Britton! I'm not belonging to your culture, or want to go there, just listen to music and movies!" 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 42 of 72 13 April 2012 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Why on earth should you put on a fake accent when speaking a foreign language? Particulary English, which is a global tongue whose native speakers are already accustomed hearing it spoken in myriad forms.
Pronunciation and accent are two completely different things. As long as you speak clearly and get the pronunciation at least approximately right, you will be understood, regardless of how you actually sound. I've never understood this fascination for having an accent, or lack of one. When I go to Germany, I have never had a problem making myself understood, but I certainly don't stand there trying to impersonate a German. Edited by beano on 13 April 2012 at 8:41pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5381 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 43 of 72 13 April 2012 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The number of consonants and vowels, and their respective mapping, in English and in German differs. Are you saying you insist on not pronouncing some of those sounds correctly insofar as it doesn't affect comprehension? German is a system, as is any language, and to pronounce all of its sounds, you will have to change the way you naturally speak; that is inevitable. Eventually, you have to say the sounds that don't exist in your language in some kind of way... and what way is that going to be if it isn't the way the Germans themselves say it? My point is that if you are learning German, you are mimicking Germans in every way, whether it be grammar, word order, syntax, or pronunciation, but you are only doing it to the point where it becomes too strenuous for you to do it better. To claim that you do not try to speak like a German is false. What you are really saying is that you not willing to make a greater effort than the effort you have made so far. 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LaughingChimp Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4699 days ago 346 posts - 594 votes Speaks: Czech* | Message 44 of 72 13 April 2012 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
What do you mean by fake accent? In a foreign language you have no native accent, so your accent can't be "fake" in any meaningful sense.
No, they are the same thing. Accent = different pronunciation, nothing else.
The problem is that what you hear as an accent may sound as completely different sounds to native speakers. German has many dialects, so people are probably used to weird pronunciations, but it doesn't work for most languages. Even if it does, it's a strain for native speakers and they may avoid talking with you, even subconsciously. I don't understand why you should not try to pronounce things correctly. Edited by LaughingChimp on 13 April 2012 at 10:45pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5415 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 45 of 72 14 April 2012 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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This thread seems to have veered a bit from its original topic, but I'll just say this:
Not all foreign language learning is equal. There's a big difference between learning a language that offers a multitude of practical economic benefits (academic requirement, better employment prospects, naturalized citizenship in a wealthier country) and learning a language for reasons purely altruistic. In other words, there's a substantive difference between an Englishman learning Russian because he enjoys Russian literature and a Spaniard learning German to get a job in Germany. There are perhaps hundreds of millions of people learning English in East Asia and Southeast Asia. But how many of these people do you think are learning English to read Faulkner or Joyce? No, they study it for the same reason they study mathematics and science. Most Anglophones have precisely the same practical motivations as East Asians and Southeast Asians, but the difference is that because they already speak the language of education and business, pragmatic Anglophone students instead simply proceed straight to focusing on their specialized areas of study (finance, biology, accounting, engineering, etc.). A common anecdote from Americans in this thread has been their fellow citizens asking, "Whaaah? Why the heck would you learn that?", but instead of comparing Americans learning Finnish or Mandarin to others worldwide learning English, a more appropriate equivalent scenario would be a Chinese learning Vietnamese or a German learning Arabic—both of which would certainly be seen as eccentric by their peers. When you extricate all the language learning in the world that occurs for practical reasons, the pool of hobbyist polyglots (aka, most of us here at HTLAL) shrinks substantially. This isn't a matter of different nationalities being "cultured and open" or "closed and arrogant", but rather of different nationalities facing different circumstances in achieving the same economic pursuits. 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5334 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 46 of 72 14 April 2012 at 1:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
The few times I have been to Finland I have met heaps of people who speak Finnish only, and that is in the capital. Young people ( as in up to 40) usually spoke English. But they did most definitely not all speak Swedish. And the older generation often spoke Finnish only. But I will not disagree with Finland ruling :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4622 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 47 of 72 14 April 2012 at 10:27am | IP Logged | ||||||||
But I do pronounce German words correctly, people never ask me to repeat myself and answer my questions without hesitation. However, I realise that as soon as I open my mouth, native speakers will tag me as a foreigner. I'm 100% happy with this, why should I try and disguise whatever accent I happen to have? This happens in English all the time. A typical Dutch person can speak superb English but they still sound like a Dutch person. This does not impede your comprehension in amy way, just that the timbre of their voice differs from a British person. Accent is more to do with the melody and pattern of your voice, how it rises and falls. A foreign learner can never develop a native accent unless they go to inordinate amounts of trouble to do so....but that is not necessary and it is not being yourself. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 48 of 72 14 April 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I've found Germans in many respects to be just as bad as Brits with languages. In many tourist resorts in Southern Europe that are frequented by Germans, I find that they always address the locals in German, always go around speaking loudly in German, often have the menus on their bars and restaurants solely in German and expect all the hotel staff to speak German.
To be honest, I don't think I've heard heard a German on holiday in Southern Europe trying to speak the local language, just like the English they just talk loudly in German and think they'll be understood and if not, they role their eyes and just think "silly native". Edited by COF on 14 April 2012 at 2:15pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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