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Chinese or Japanese: which is easier? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| aokoye Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5541 days ago 235 posts - 453 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, Norwegian, Japanese | Message 17 of 73 22 April 2012 at 3:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I think part of the issue is, however, that everyone is different. You may not have a background in music but I know a number of people, myself included, who do and fewer that have perfect pitch. Would that make learning Chinese easier for them? I don't know, though having perfect pitch might help with the tones. The thing is, we are all different so asking a such a subjective question as "is Japanese or Chinese easier [regardless of the person's background]" won't necessarily get you a lot of "accurate" information because it really depends on the person. I can understand why one would want to know whether X language is easier to learn than Y language, but I think it'd be pretty hard to get a good answer. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5415 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 18 of 73 22 April 2012 at 3:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I can't imagine anyone would choose to learn or not learn a language simply because it is or isn't "supposed" to take more time than some other language. If you're into Japanese culture, Norwegian isn't going to be an adequate substitute just because it takes less time. If you're a devout Muslim, Hindi isn't going to bring you any closer to the Quran just because it's simpler than Arabic. And if you plan to do business in China, Afrikaans is not going to be a better option merely because it's more closely related to English. The only exception I could think of would be a student who has to take a language class and simply wants the easiest A, but even then, course grades are usually adjusted relative to the difficulty of the course material.
Easier pronunciation doesn't necessarily imply an easier language. Japanese, too, is easier to pronounce than French. Is Japanese therefore "easier" than French? Edited by nway on 22 April 2012 at 3:48am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Michael K. Senior Member United States Joined 5729 days ago 568 posts - 886 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto | Message 19 of 73 22 April 2012 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Easier pronunciation could definitely be a deal breaker when deciding between languages like Japanese or Chinese, or Spanish and French. People may often have difficulty deciding between those sets of languages. Of course they'll make a decision based on several factors, especially what would be more useful to them.
I was going to do Japanese instead of Chinese, because I like the culture more and find Japanese easier to pronounce. I only had a Japanese TYS, and had Michel Thomas foundation and advanced courses and the first part of Assimil for Chinese, so I decided to try Chinese instead. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 20 of 73 22 April 2012 at 4:47am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Your examples show that your own language choices are based on strong cultural preferences. Others may have different criteria. My reasons wsere linguistic - one day I simply started craving having another language present in my brain, and so I picked one with enough books to read and movies to watch, and which wasn't too hard, so I could scratch the itch sooner rather than later.
As a reply to what I had said, this is a non sequitur since I had not made that claim. It's also worth noting that a more difficult language having an easier pronunciation may mean that you will at least eventually sound pretty good in it, while you may never attain that particular distinction in the otherwise easier language with a challenging pronunciation. Edited by frenkeld on 22 April 2012 at 5:08am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5415 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 21 of 73 22 April 2012 at 5:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Those examples were not "my own languages choices", and they were not based on "strong cultural preferences". I could come up with hundreds of other examples of the same nature. The point remains: Languages are learned for reasons beyond their difficulties relative to each other.
I know you didn't explicitly make that claim, but that's what this thread is about. Why else would you have brought it up?
True. But then that doesn't really have anything to do with one language being easier than the other. The language that's easier to pronounce could be easier to pronounce than a "harder" or an "easier" language just the same, so the overall difficulty is still a moot point. Edited by nway on 22 April 2012 at 5:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 22 of 73 22 April 2012 at 5:28am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Right, hundreds of examples based on cultural preferences. I mean, when you write, "If you're into Japanese culture, Norwegian isn't going to be an adequate substitute just because it takes less time. If you're a devout Muslim, Hindi isn't going to bring you any closer to the Quran just because it's simpler than Arabic," what else are you talking about other than a preference for a particular language for cultural reasons?
Many learners take the TL diffculty into account. I am surprised you persist in denying this self-evident fact. Or do you actually agree?
It was brought up in reply to your statement that you saw no reason to rank languages by difficulty. I stated that some learners are certainly interedsted in the rough (FSI-style) ranking by the overall level of difficulty, and added (in so many words) that some may also be interested in ranking them by some specific criteria, pronunciation being one possibility. Where you would be right is if you observed that this thread talks about two languages in the same FSI category, and so the rough FSI categories are not at play here. True, but I suspected that your remark about the pointlessness of rankings was meant more generally, which, based on your subsequent comments, does appear to be the case.
Another refutation of a claim not made. A more difficult pronunciation was never implied to say anything about the overall level of difficulty. Edited by frenkeld on 22 April 2012 at 5:39am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5959 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 23 of 73 22 April 2012 at 5:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Well, that's mostly true though there are some exceptions....at the moment can't think of the ones I've run across. I have no thoughts on whether Japanese or Chinese is harder. Edited by Snowflake on 22 April 2012 at 5:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| nway Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/Vic Joined 5415 days ago 574 posts - 1707 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean | Message 24 of 73 22 April 2012 at 6:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Doing business in China is not a "cultural preference". Neither is learning Portuguese because you have a Brazilian friend, or learning Thai because you plan to retire in Thailand. And even if they *are* considered "cultural preferences", what exactly is your point? Most people learn languages for precisely those types of reasons. Successfully learning a language is a lifelong endeavor, and most people would not dedicate a good chunk of their life to learning a particular language simply due to the number of hours they'd expect it to take them to achieve some arbitrary proficiency level.
I agree that it can be taken into account with respect to a "really easy" language like Spanish versus a "really hard" language like Mandarin. But if you have to rank Japanese relative to Mandarin by having a bunch of people discuss it on a forum, any possible difference between the two clearly isn't significant or apparent enough to warrant factoring in the first place.
Oh, it's certainly interesting. Just about anything can be interesting to at least someone. But my point wasn't whether or not it's interesting, but rather whether or not it's of any utility. Those FSI rankings were descriptive, not prescriptive. And it's worth noting that those FSI rankings are by no means universally objective, as the conditions of the FSI courses that the rankings were derived from are very specific indeed:
Interesting? Yes. Applicable to making personal life-changing decisions? Not so much. Edited by nway on 22 April 2012 at 6:01am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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