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Chinese or Japanese: which is easier? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4772 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes  Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 41 of 73 27 April 2012 at 9:40am | IP Logged | ||
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I think this has already been discussed here before (or maybe it was on a different forum), and the last time I linked to this blog post. tldr: Chinese pronunciation is harder in the initial stages, but it gets easier later on, while the opposite is true for Japanese; the situation is reversed for grammar. Writing/reading is about equally difficult in both, though for slightly different reasons (Chinese requires more characters, while in Japanese characters have many dissimilar readings), so it all comes down to what is more difficult for you, pronunciation or grammar.
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| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4889 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 42 of 73 27 April 2012 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I haven't studied either, so this is just hearsay, but I know a lot of professionals who
work in both Japan and China. The standard advice we get is: 1. Study Japanese. It will help you in Japan. 2. Don't bother with Chinese. You will never learn Chinese better than your Chinese counterparts learn English. I should note that Japanese is a major second language where I live, so a lot of us have been exposed to it even if we've never studied it. I'm sure that makes formal study easier when the time comes. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| baskerville Trilingual Triglot Newbie Singapore scribeorigins.com Joined 4246 days ago 39 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English*, Tagalog* Studies: German*, Japanese Studies: Hungarian | Message 43 of 73 13 June 2013 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | ||
Chinese speakers I encountered are fluent in English, and I have encountered more English speaking Chinese than there are Japanese. I definitely think Chinese pronunciation is difficult and I think it take me several years to master all the needed characters. Japanese, on the other hand, gives me problems with grammar. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hertz Pro Member United States Joined 4513 days ago 47 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 44 of 73 13 June 2013 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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Chinese characters do sometimes change in pronunciation in different contexts, but in my experience so far
(6 months study at university) they aren't common. 暖和 "warm" is has 和 as huo, but by itself 和 "and" is he2. 方便 "convenient" has 便 as bian4, but in other words it's pian2. 得 (a particle) is often de, but it can be dei2 when it means "must, have to." I can't speak to whether Japanese is easier in any measurable way, as I haven't studied it. However, I do have perfect pitch and it's of great use in mimicking any of the sounds I've studied in all the languages I've looked at. It doesn't mean I can mimic every sound (some sounds in Russian are fiendishly difficult) or distinguish every tone but it certainly helps. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vonPeterhof Tetraglot Senior Member Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4772 days ago 715 posts - 1527 votes Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish | Message 45 of 73 14 June 2013 at 12:29am | IP Logged | ||
Just to clarify, when I said that "in Japanese characters have many dissimilar readings" I was aware that some characters do have multiple readings in Chinese. My understanding was that in those cases the readings are usually somewhat similar and appear to be etymologically related. Most Japanese characters have at least one borrowed Chinese reading and at least one native Japanese reading that doesn't resemble the former at all, and many characters go even beyond that. For example, the aforementioned character 和 has "wa" as its most common Chinese reading (平和 - heiwa "peace") and two more or less equally common native readings "nago-" (和やか nagoyaka "calm) and "yawa-" (和らぐ yawaragu "to calm down"). It also has two more obscure Chinese readings, most likely borrowed during different time periods and/or from different regions of China - "o" and "ka" (和尚, a kind of Buddhist priests, can be pronounced oshō, kashō and wajō, with the first variant being most common). And then when it gets to personal names all bets are off, with possibilities including 智和 Tomokazu, 愛和 Aina, 和泉 Izumi and 和 Nodoka. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Hertz Pro Member United States Joined 4513 days ago 47 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 46 of 73 14 June 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was wrong. Earlier, it was mentioned that some Chinese characters
change in sound, but no one could provide specifics. I was simply supplying a few. They aren't common. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5959 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 47 of 73 14 June 2013 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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When characters are a weak point, any variation can throw a person off. The sound changes in Mandarin happen often enough. It's especially noticeable when reading out loud in a group of 20-50 native speakers and you make a mistake. Doing that often enough can make anyone quite conscious about correct readings.
尿 niào , suī 挾/挟 xié , jiā 仇 chóu, qiú 扳 bān, pān 扛 káng, gāng 廈/厦 shà, Xià 雀 què, qiāo 衰 shuāi, cuī Edited by Snowflake on 14 June 2013 at 10:11pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4254 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 48 of 73 15 June 2013 at 7:24am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not too deep into the whole language learning business yet, so perhaps someone with more experience my opinions will change.
But does anyone else think that complicated grammar doesn't necessarily make a language more "difficult"? Complicated grammar is a pain to learn, but generally it has a purpose, and once you've internalized it, it makes comprehension a lot easier. It seems to me languages that require less grammar to learn, are much harder to comprehend because a lot more depends on context and insinuation. I tend to think the "difficulty" of a language lies more in how different it is from the languages you've already studied, and how consistent/logical the grammar is. I haven't studied Mandarin or Japanese, so I cannot comment on specifics in this case. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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