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| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 81 of 133 06 September 2012 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well I first heard "The Hobbit" being read on BBC Radio "Children's Hour" when I was at primary school, and it made a big impression. Later, when I was a teen and in my twenties it became fairly cool to have read "The Lord of the Rings". Later on, I read both to my children as bedtime stories. So Tolkien is pretty much in the blood. I was much more skeptical of Harry Potter, and wouldn't have bothered, except that my wife bought them, and as I say, I actually got hooked around book 4 or 5. There is a home-grown German fantasy trilogy called "Tintenwelt". I've only read a bit, but it's definitely on my list to come back to.
I first tried to read him ("Effie Briest") years ago, after he was mentioned with high praise on part of an OU German course I was doing. I really wasn't ready to read such books, but I plugged away and somehow got through it, no doubt missing a lot. I also saw the film version made by Rainer Werner Fassbinder - sehr sehenswürdig, darf ich sagen. Over the years, I bought the occasional additional Fontane novel, and slowly plugged away at them. It's only in the last 2 or 3 years that I would say I've really begun to get into them properly. Finding an audiobook version of Effi Briest on Librivox last year was great, and learning about L-R at around the same time also helped a lot. I would say though, as I've said on HTLAL in other posts, I'd definitely try to find good translations if you can, and read those as well - after, before, or before and after, or when listening to the German audio ... whatever works for you. Having said that, there aren't all that many translations around: For "Unwiederbringlich", I'd definitely recommend the one by Helen Chambers & Hugh Rorrison, and they have also translated "Effi Briest". For "Irrungen, Wirrungen", the one by Peter James Bowman, although the one by another (unrelated) Bowman is also ok. And I think that's about it. My next one will probably be "Frau Jenny Treibel", as I already have the German paperback. I did read it a few years ago, and didn't find it too bad. It will be interesting to read it along with an audiobook, now I have one. But no translation. Helen Chambers has written an article and/or a book about the paucity of good translations of classic German works. Well I hope she or Peter John Bowman do a few more between them! It is true that Fontane sometimes writes long sentences, and uses a lot of words you probably won't find in use today. (That's ok with me though, since I want to read all of his work, and perhaps other authors of similar vintage). I don't think he deliberately shows off linguistically, as Thomas Mann appears to do. And he is very good on dialogue. I think a lot of his books would be quite filmable for that reason, although "Effi Briest" is the only one I know of. Also, zur Frage: "würde ich ihn empfehlen?" - Kurz und gut: Ja, ganz sicher und ohne Zweifel würde ich ihn herzlich empfehlen, obwohl ich hinzufügen würde: find dir eine Übersetzung, wenn es möglich ist. Edited by montmorency on 06 September 2012 at 9:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ummagumma Senior Member IrelandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 217 posts - 241 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 82 of 133 06 September 2012 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Das interessiert mich.
Ich habe eine Deutsche geheiratet, die deutsche Literatur studiert hat. Ich bin ein Glückspilz! Wir haben hier Zuhause Hunderte von Romanen. Ich habe schon vielmals 'Siddhartha' (von Hesse) und 'Die Verwandlung' (von Kafka) gelesen. Die waren sehr einfach zu lesen und verstaendlich. Gleichzeitig habe ich die Hörbücher gehoert. Also ein Teil der L-R Methode. Ich habe beides wirklich genossen. Im vergangenen Jahr habe ich 'Der Prozess' zu lesen ausprobiert und bin gescheitert. Es war damals einfach zu schwer. Wie gesagt, ich habe bei mir daheim eine grosse Auswahl aber es ist zeimlich schwer ein geeignetes Buch auszuwählen. Im Moment wiederhole ich Assimil und schaue mir Anime an. Vielleicht sollte ich mehr L- R machen. Es ist toll, deutsche Literatur zu lesen. Die Bücher warten bloß auf mich im Regal! Danke für deine obigen Empfehlungen. Sie sind sehr hilfreich. Viel Spaß beim Deutschlernen. (Edited mistakes. Danke フィリップ) Edited by ummagumma on 07 September 2012 at 9:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 83 of 133 07 September 2012 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
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2012-09-05 Donnerstag| torsdag
Dansk CC days=25 cn=20=tyve (tyvende) >10 words unit 15 Mostly word-listing; some HP (="Harry/Palmer"). (n.b.HP in this context does not refer to Harry Potter! Not that I have anything against reading him, and plan on doing so in German, and maybe Danish one day, but that's not what I'm doing right now. :-) Deutsch "Unwiederbringlich": cd8.3 ch 32 cd8.4 ch 33 cd8.5 ch 34. >>>Das Ende<<< I said I wouldn't give away the ending, and I won't in English, but (if I can summon up the energy, probably tomorrow as my eyes are tired tonight), I will transcribe a letter Fontane wrote to his publisher which documents where he got the story from. People like Fontane were great letter writers as well as great novelists, and they help to document the progress of many of his novels. When you know the original story, you pretty much know the story of "Unwiederbringlich". Only the location and details were changed. It's also interesting to see how he writes when he doesn't have his novelist's cap on. It is simpler, although I am sure still fairly elegant prose. Helen Chambers' professional home page: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/modlangs/People/German/Chambers/ Her book on the changing image of Fontane is now incredibly expensive, and I don't suppose I will be buying it, but some of it can be seen on google books. She has written loads of relevant papers, but the contents are not online, or only in journals I don't have access to. However, found some interesting Fontane stuff on someone else's PhD Thesis. There is a lot of symbolism in the book, a lot of which I had missed. e.g. the relationship between Holk and Christine relates to that between Denmark and "Germany". Even their names are symbolic, e.g. "Christine" suggests her piety. One thing I had forgotten or not fully appreciated was that there were people who hoped Schleswig-Holstein would remain Danish, and others who hoped for an independent German Schleswig-Holstein (i.e. not part of Prussia either). Both were doomed to eventual disappointment as Prussia got it in the end, after the time this book is set, but only just after. (1864 I think). Of course Fontane knew that when he was writing it in the late 1880s. I typed the following on Friday, but logically it belongs under Thursday's entry: 2 letters from Fontane. Only one of which explains the story, but I put the poem in just because I like it :-) Transcribed by hand for an exercise then retranscribing it by fingers: "An Emilie Fontane ; ; ; ; Berlin zum 14 Dezember 1887 "Der neue Roman ich hab ihn fertig Wenn auch nicht in allen Stucken Er ist doch Deines Abschrift gewärtig Dann kann ihn Kröner drucken Unwiederbringlich sein Titel ist Unwiederbringlich ist vieles! Doch lassen wir das zum heiligen Christ Und gedanken wir unres Zieles (Bri efe 2, S. 340: vgl. Bd23 S134) An Julius Rodenberg &nb sp; Berlin 21 Nov 1898 Den Stoff der Novelle gab ich Ihnen in der Beilage. Vor drei, vier Jahren, schrieb mir Frau Geh. R Brunnemann, geb. v. Mayerinck, (Schwester der mal so schönen Geh.R Böhm, der Ihnen gewiß bekannt ist), einem langen Brief aus Italien und darin - angeregt durch eine Novelle von mir - folgende Familien Geschichte. Baron Plessen-Ivenack, auf Schloß Ivenack in Streliz, Kavalier comme il faut, Ehrenmann, lebte seit 18 Jahren in einer glücklichen Ehe. Die Frau, 37, noch schön, etwas Fromm (die Strelitzer tun es nicht anders). Er Kammerherr. Als solcher, wird er zu vorübergehender Dienstleistung an den Strelitzer Hof berufen. Hier macht er die Bekanntschaft eines jungen pommerschen Frauleins, v. Dewitz, eines Ausbundes nicht von Schönheit, aber von Piquanterie. Den Rest, brauche ich Ihnen nicht zu erzählen. Er ist behext. Kehrt nach Ivenack zurück und sagt siner Frau: sie müßten sich trennen, so und so. Die Frau, tödlich getroffen, willigt an alles und geht. Die Scheidung wird gerichtlich ausgesprochen. Und nun kehrt der Baron nach Strelitz zurück und wirbt in aller Form um die Dewitz. Die Lacht in aus. Sie steht aber auf dem Punkte, sich mit einem ebenso reichen aber unverheirateten Herrn aus der Stelitzer Gesellschaft zu verloben. Der armer Kerl, er hat die Taube auf dem Dach gewollt und hat nun weder Taube noch Sperling. Er geht ins Ausland, ist ein unglücklicher blamierter und halb dem Ridikul verfallener Mann. Inzwischen aber ist die älteste Tochter die beide Eltern gleich schwärmerisch liebt, herangewachsen, es spielen allerhand Szenen in der Verwandtschaft Versöhnungsversuche drängen sich, und das Ende vom Liede ist: es soll alles vergessen sein. Zwei Jahre sind vergangen. Die Frau, willigt ein, und unter nie dagewesener Pracht, darin sich der Jubel des ganzen Landes Strelitz mischt, wird das geschiedene Paar zum zweiten Male getraut. Alles steht Kopf, der Hof nimmt Teil, Telegramm von Gott weiß woher. Musik und Toaste. Plötzlich aber ist die wieder Getraute, die wieder strahlende, die wieder scheinbar Glückliche von der Seite ihres Mannes verschwunden, und als man nach ihr sucht, findet man sie tot am Teich. Und auf ihrem Zimmer einen Brief der nichts enthält als das Wort: Unwiederbringlich. Dies ungefähr das, was mir Frau Brunneman in Damestil und Damehandschrift schrieb. >>Ich könne damit machen, was ich wolle - ich hatte es zu freier Verfügung << (Sie ist Cousine des Hauses) Ich bin doch klüger Felderr gewesen, was ihr nachträglich sehr lieb zu sein scheint, und habe die Geschichte nach Schleswig-Holstein und Kopenhagen hin transponiert, so daß sie jetzt zu kleinem Teil auf einem Schloß in der Nähe von Glücksburg zu größrem in Kopenhagen und auf der Insel Seeland spielt. Solche Transponierung ist nicht leicht. Ich ging sämtliche deutsche Höfe durch, nichts paßte mit, als ich aber Nord Schleswig und Kopenhagen gefunden hatte, >> war ich raus << . Nur Strelitz selbst wäre vielleicht doch noch besser gewesen und hatte meine Geschichte den Ton des politisch Satirischen gegeben, nun? klingt nordisch Romantisches mit durch. Geschrieben habe ich die Geschichte jetzt vorm Jahr in den Wochen und Monaten, die dem Tode meines Sohnes folgten. Ich habe mich unter der Arbeit bei Trost und Frische gehalten. Natürlich ist nichts fertig, aber die Geschichte ist doch da, und was fehlt, ist nur Korrektur. Freilich immer das Mühsamste unz Zeitraubenste. (Briefe an Rodenberg S. 27 ff )" [Any grammatical, spelling, etc, errors, are mine and not Fontane's! Apologies: could not read my own writing, and was a bit tired when typing this. Will hopefully correct later] Edited by montmorency on 08 September 2012 at 1:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 84 of 133 08 September 2012 at 12:13am | IP Logged | |||||
"Glückspilz" :-) Das war neu für mich; auch "obig". Ich brauche noch viel Arbeit zu meinem Wortschatz. Ich muss wahrscheinlich meine Wahl von Autoren ausbreiten, aber Kafka klingt ein bisschen zu weit für mich! Von späteren Schriftstellern, würde ich von Günther Grass, Heinrich Böll, und Erich Kästner viel halten. Ich finde Christa Wolf (ursprünglich von der DDR) interessant, aber irgendwie schwierig. Sie besiegt mich immer :-( Edited by montmorency on 08 September 2012 at 12:15am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| ummagumma Senior Member IrelandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 217 posts - 241 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 85 of 133 08 September 2012 at 10:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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Der Begriff "Glückspilz" gefaellt mir sehr.
Ich habe ihn, und manche andere, hier gelernt: DW - Wort DW.de ist eine wahre Goldgrube an Lehrmaterial. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 86 of 133 08 September 2012 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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2012-09-07 Freitag| Fredag Dansk CC days=26 cn=21=enogtyve (enogtyvende) >10 words unit 15 Mostly word-listing. Gave more time to German, especially Fontane today. Deutsch Read some more of Fontane's letters and the notes in the back of "Unwiederbringlich", Did some vocabulary work. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 87 of 133 09 September 2012 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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2012-09-08 Lørdag
Fru M. returned from Istanbul/Ephesus. She said the language sounded very strange, but occasionally she would hear "merci" and "pardon", suggesting some French influence at some time. Dansk CC days=27 cn=22=toogtyve (toogtyvende) >10 words unit 15 Some fun words: "overdrive": to exaggerate; similar to German "übertreiben". Also: "æggetefælle" (n,r) - spouse. The feller who gets egg poured over his head when marital harmony goes out of tune? (but also means a female spouse, of course). Hate to whinge, but this book could really do with a decent summary of all the numbers in a table at the back. It's fine introducing it in stages, but sometimes you just want a quick reference, and as far as I can see, they never actually teach "enotyve" explicitly, although you can deduce it from "enotyvende" which they do teach, and in a reference to a clock time which is there somewhere you wouldn't quickly find if you were scanning for it. My book is now scribbled over with notes to help me find all the number stuff, and maybe I should write my own summary and stick it in the back. [/rant]. :-) Deutsch Took down my copy of "Die Pogenpuhls", which I had forgotten having read, but pencilled notes make it clear that I read it for the 2nd time last year, and I'd also made a lot of vocab notes. Bit worrying that I barely remember it! It's only a short book. I'll have a look through the notes ("Anmerkungung") and letters("Briefzeugnisse", and also the "Nachwort" at the back, which are often as interesting as the book itself. I decided that I needed to get more Fontane books in actual book form, and sent off for modestly priced used copies of several from abebooks and one from amazon. I know that theoretically I could get a lot free via kindle (for the PC) via amazon (I don't currently have a kindle and have no plans to get one at the moment), but I'm kind of reluctant to commit myself to reading them that way, although I have actually read plenty of e-books on the laptop in my time, and they do have advantages, but I really like paper books as well, especially when they are well-made and in reasonable condition. (Regrettably, Penguins, at least the ones sold in the UK, are often of lamentably bad quality IMO, even when new. It's not as though they are particularly cheap to buy. For new books, I'd take an Angel Books copy any time over Penguin, although there aren't that many). Don't think I'll read "Die Poggenpuhls" again at the moment, and will revert to my plan of reading "Frau Jenny Treibel", along with the audio. However, I'll also have a more modern German one going at the same time. I think I know what it will be, although I'm almost spoilt for choice at the moment. It seems like Fontane had fun with the title he chose, being a mixture of actual place and family names, apparently. I suspect he had a quiet sense of humour behind that rather gruff exterior we usually see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_ Fontane An interesting point for language learners is that he is supposed to have taught himself English by reading English literature (and translating it), although he later lived and worked in England for several years, and no doubt became competent in the spoken language. Someone told me that he had also taught English, although I have yet to see that in any biographical notes. Edited by montmorency on 09 September 2012 at 1:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4772 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 88 of 133 10 September 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged | |||||
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2012-09-09 Sondag
Dansk CC days=28 cn=23=treogtyve (treogtyvende) >10 words unit 15 Bought "Kvinden i buret" (Jussi Adler-Olsen) in Epub format from Mibook.dk, who were marginally cheaper than Saxo.dk, although they are significantly cheaper for some of the audiobooks I'm potentially interested in. The process of account creation and purchase was smooth (I used google translate to be on the safe side), and the email with the download link came right away, and it worked with no problems. I'm using the free FBReader to read it. It works OK, except the "next page" arrow doesn't seem to work. PgDn or down arrow or the mouse wheel works OK. I thought the next page arrow had worked on other books, but need to check. Not tried ADE or Calibre on this, although I expect Calibre not to read it because of DRM silliness. The good news is that the audiobook seems to be the full book, and not an adaptation. I am not sanguine that this will be true of the others; will just have to see. And I'm understanding a reasonable amount ... from cognates, memory of reading it in English, and (I'm glad to say) because of words I actually know. The main thing at the moment is to associate the written words with the sounds, and that's coming on ok, although the (female) reader is rattling along at a fair old pace. It's not an unpleasant listen though, by any means. The chapters are of manageable length, I would say - variable - the flashback ones seem to be shorter. Deutsch Looking at "Die Poggenpuhls" notes again + vocabulary. Read Ch1-3 of "Erbarmen" & listened to audio. This is the German translation of "Kvinden i buret". Slightly annoying that the text and audio are not identical. I guess the audio is an adaptation, although so far, only small bits are missing, but occasionally, some bits seemed to be in the audio and not the text, so not quite sure what is going on. Perhaps they are just based on different translations??? And we know that sometimes translators take liberties. Quite a good reader though; two actually, one female, representing Merete, one male representing Carl Mørk (or rather the police side of the story). The e-book has: "Aus dem Dänischen von Hannes Thiess". hmm...according to the "end credits" of the audiobook, it's from the same translation. Well, I think the best thing to do is just to listen to the audiobook, and not worry about the text. It might be interesting to borrow the printed text from the library again, and compare it with the e-book. Edited by montmorency on 10 September 2012 at 11:52am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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