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American flag or British flag for English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4665 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 33 of 66 19 June 2012 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I assume that "1928" is supposed to be "1828," or else we must conclude that Webster was 170 years old when he completed his dictionary. :-)
Very interesting discussion, though. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| COF Senior Member United States Joined 5831 days ago 262 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English* | Message 34 of 66 19 June 2012 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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On the whole, I believe that it is best for a learner of English to try to emulate a "General American" style of speech and accent. Due to the media, this accent is widely understood all over the world and to some extent is regarded almost as a neutral accent.
I would advise against focusing too much on trying to emulate Received Pronunciation, as I feel that RP is a somewhat archaic style of speech that is unrepresentative of how British people really use English, and that to many it comes across as unnatural and forced, or even somewhat arrogant. Unlike "General American" in the USA, there is no truly accepted "standard" way of speaking in the UK. RP is the closest there is to a standardised way of speaking, but as I said, that is regarded as very archaic and to some is regarded negatively as being upper class and superior. Also, if you learn General American, you will be understood perfectly in the UK as well, so really there is no advantage to trying to emulate any other accent and style of speech. Edited by COF on 19 June 2012 at 8:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5565 days ago 938 posts - 1840 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 35 of 66 19 June 2012 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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I agree with you that non-natives should learn general American as it is the most
accepted accent in the English speaking world(although EuroAmerican often sounds somehow lazy to my RP hearing ears, especially from Germanic language speakers - but that is my prejudice). However, if a non-native does not want an American accent (and that includes many Europeans I have met who have an animus against the USA due to recent past political events and thus do not want to sound 'American'), then (at least to me) RP is the only way to go - any other accent will cause derision. Edited by Elexi on 19 June 2012 at 9:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lecavaleur Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4777 days ago 146 posts - 295 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish | Message 36 of 66 19 June 2012 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm a native Anglophone, but if I could choose my own accent, it would be Australian
hands down! I love the way they talk. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5262 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 37 of 66 19 June 2012 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Oh boy, here we go again. Live and let live. De gustibus non est disputandum. Edited by iguanamon on 19 June 2012 at 9:45pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| orion Senior Member United States Joined 7021 days ago 622 posts - 678 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 38 of 66 20 June 2012 at 1:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Five pages of discussion about which icon to click to get to an English version of a given website? And yet people wonder why no professional linguists wish to participate on this forum...
13 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5855 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 39 of 66 25 June 2012 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Why don't we use an Anglophone flag for English, Francophone flag for French, Germanphone
flag for German, Lusophone flag for Portuguese, Hispanic flag for Spanish and the CIS flag for Russian? In this way, there won't be an issue on which country's flag should be representing the language and everything is now fair for everyone. Edited by QiuJP on 25 June 2012 at 3:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| RMM Diglot Groupie United States Joined 5227 days ago 91 posts - 215 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Swedish, Japanese | Message 40 of 66 26 June 2012 at 12:49am | IP Logged | ||
This really depends to an extent on which group of colonists we are talking about (they were by no means monolithic), but overall I think this is mostly correct. The puritans and pilgrims in New England were much more keen on clearly separating themselves from the mother country and her Anglicanism and religious limitations. However, most of the settlers in the South and parts of the Mid-Atlantic colonies came for monetary or personal reasons and typically still considered themselves to be Englishmen, even ones who were born in the colonies. There are many historical instances were colonists (those of English decent at any rate) referred to themselves as Englishmen in writing. Even after war broke out with England, many of the American patriots still hoped not to fully break from England. That's why it took a year after the war begin before the colonists declared independence. Beyond this, in regard to language, in some ways American English remained more conservative than British English. Elizabethan English, for example, used "gotten" for "got" and "Fall" for "Autumn." It was also rhotic (r's at the end of syllables were hard and clear), and short "a" sounds (as in hat) were more common than a longer "a" sound (as in father--in fact in Elizabethan English, father was typically pronounced with a short "a" sound to rhyme with lather). These are all features that are more common in American English than British. This doesn't comport with the idea that the American colonists were attempting to change their way of speaking as quickly as possible. Tangier Island in Virginia even has a population whose accent very closely resembles that of its original settlers who came from Cornwall in the 1600's. Now that's linguistic conservatism! I think we need to remember too that different parts of the US were settled at different times and by different peoples. This too can play a role in linguistic developments. Beyond this, most people were illiterate during the colonial era. I've done a lot of genealogical work and it is very common to find multiple spellings of names from this time period. Widespread illiteracy almost guarantees variations in spelling. However, even those who can read and write are not always consistent. Shakespeare, for example, was known for spelling the same word in multitudinous ways in different places ("multitudinous" was, by the way, a word that Shakespeare invented on his own whim). Certainly, some Americans like Daniel Webster deliberately wanted to set us apart from the British (and as Elexi pointed out simply to standardize an inconsistent language), but most differences developed organically and not because of some sort of anti-English sentiment. Edited by RMM on 26 June 2012 at 12:53am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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