Can one speak better than understand? (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

Can one speak better than understand?
Tags: Comprehension/understanding \| Listening \| Speaking
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

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s_allard
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Message 177 of 186

29 September 2012 at 2:19am | IP Logged

iguanamon wrote:

I worry about myself. I don't worry about others. "Speak better than understand"? That depends upon how one defines "speak". A phonetic language like Spanish is easier for an English-speaker to master pronunciation than a tonal language like Vietnamese or a non-phonetic language like Danish. The mechanics of some languages are easier to master than the mechanics of others as regards pronunciation. Since pronouncing words and putting them together into a coherent sentence is "speaking". I see how someone can say that. I'd prefer to say that I can make myself understood better than I can understand what is being said in that situation..

I define "speaking" a language as being able to get my point across and understand what my partner in conversation is trying to relate to me with a minimum of difficulty and stress for both partners.

Barry Farber- How To Learn Any Language wrote:

There will come a moment when I will cross a border and earn the right to say, “Yes, I speak your language”!

There’s no such border. Learning a language is a process of encroachment into the unknown. When can you say you “speak a language”? The famous ophthalmologist Dr. Peter Halberg of New York refuses to consider that he speaks a language unless and until he can conduct a medical lecture in the language and then take hostile questioning from his peers. By his standards, he only speaks five languages!

My standards are less exacting. I’ll confess to “speaking a language” if, after engaging in deep conversation with a charming woman from a country whose language I’m studying, I have difficulty the next morning recalling which language it was we were speaking.

Here we have two different definitions of what the word "speak" means as it relates to language learning. I'm with Farber on this one. It appears that @s_allard may be in Dr. Halberg's camp. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just an opinion and also, to a certain extent, semantics as regards the word "speaks".

This is what the debate is all about. Nothing more complicated than that. It all depends on how we define "speaking." I would like to say that that is what I've been saying all along but I'm afraid of setting off another maelstrom of abuse. So, I'll just let sleeping dogs lie and say that some people can speak better than understand.
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jeff_lindqvist
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Message 178 of 186

29 September 2012 at 3:44pm | IP Logged

Music isn't the same as languages, but I know people who have played classical music (or jazz) for their whole lives, who are able to sight-read and play the music back to you note-for-note, while if they heard a melody as simple as "Twinkle twinkle" they couldn't play along if they didn't have the "dots" in front of them (don't even think about jamming with those people...).

Musical skill? Depending on definition, yes.
"Understanding"? Not really.
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showtime17
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Message 179 of 186

01 October 2012 at 9:59am | IP Logged

Actually here is a blog post on this:

http://languagegeek.net/2011/08/01/have-i-learned-anything/

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clumsy
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Message 180 of 186

01 October 2012 at 1:08pm | IP Logged

Of course one does.

If you hear someone's speech you must understand what are they saying, but if you want to make your own sentence you can make use of words that you know.
If you don't know the word for 'devour' just say 'eat' if you don't know money for bank or school say 'money keep place' and 'learn house'.
It may not be very, you know, but anyone will understand it.
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Serpent
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Message 181 of 186

01 October 2012 at 6:34pm | IP Logged

clumsy wrote:

It may not be very, you know, but anyone will understand it.

You may also skip a word altogether and it will be understood from the context, as the native speaker will probably understand 100% of the words you do say. On the other hand, it's much harder for YOU to understand things from the context, especially when the words you do understand are mostly the common multi-purpose words.
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Serpent
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Message 182 of 186

02 October 2012 at 2:47am | IP Logged

Another interesting example:

Quote:

Is it common when learning languages that you misunderstand many sentences, but when given their translation you can translate them to your target language? What I mean is that many many times I fail to understand what people say, but if I am given a translation of what they said I can easily reverse it back to Russian, even in several different ways sometimes.

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Bao
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Message 183 of 186

02 October 2012 at 4:38am | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

clumsy wrote:

It may not be very, you know, but anyone will understand it.

But that was actually an example of dropping words like a native speaker, not a learner. =D
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Iversen
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Message 184 of 186

02 October 2012 at 1:29pm | IP Logged

The Scovel test fails because precisely the best second language speakers would find it humiliating to let themselves be judged by a man who already has decided that speakers at their level don't exist. And who hasn't even disclosed by which precise criteria he intend to judge their performance and why he should be competent to do so.

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