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Can one speak better than understand? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6589 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 41 of 186 21 September 2012 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You don't have to speak like the people in movies to speak well, but to say you can listen well you need to understand movies.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4699 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 42 of 186 21 September 2012 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I didn't. I said I spoke in a different register. ;) I agree with you that they are the hardest though. So in short, I'd say nowt? Edited by tarvos on 21 September 2012 at 4:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5373 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 43 of 186 21 September 2012 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's pushing it a little. Again, understanding movies is something that takes years to do because it's natural interactions between natives. When a non-native is in the picture, the language changes a bit, and if you are part of the converstation, your ability to guess and foresee where the discussion is going increases manifold, and so does your comprehension. So one can certainly do quite well in conversation and still fail to be satisfied with their comrehension of movies. Edited by Arekkusu on 21 September 2012 at 4:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4699 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 44 of 186 21 September 2012 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I would like to add though, that in the beginning, my level of understanding in French
was about 50-60% in normal speech with natives. This is about a year ago. Nowadays it's something closer to 90%. But it usually depends on the subject. I remember that when I watched Intouchables in March the percentage of dialogue I understood was about 50%, (and the rest I gleaned from subtitles). It's more now. However, I think the problem is that in conversations, you can express yourself quite well even with limited building blocks if you're good at using them over and over. Someone who has access to a much bigger pile of them can sometimes throw a lot of them at you at once. This is overwhelming when they thunder through a lot of vocab (sometimes slang) you don't know at all. Edited by tarvos on 21 September 2012 at 4:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5422 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 45 of 186 21 September 2012 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think the number-one complaint of learners when confronted with raw native speech is that it is too fast and difficult to understand. This we all agree on. The question is that some people think that their ability to speak the language is better than their ability to understand. They can put together the words in what they think is a correct manner and with what they think is a decent accent. But they can't have a conversation with a native speaker and they have problems following a movie or a television program. All of this I understand. And I recognize that some people here are saying to me, "My level of speaking is higher than my level of understanding. If people only spoke more slowly, there wouldn't be a problem." This is where I have a problem. Maybe I'm the only person who finds speaking challenging. I wish I could say that I have no problem speaking Spanish fluently, that I know all vocabulary and idioms necessary, that my grammar is impeccable and that I really master the verb system. My only problem is that I can't understand when people speak. In reality, my problem is exactly the opposite. When I sit down for a conversation with a language buddy, my problem isn't really understanding the other person. It's opening my mouth and spontaneously saying something that is correct, appropriate and sounds good. I want to be corrected because I know that I still make mistakes that I'm completely unaware of. As I have said earlier, with beginners, comprehension of native speech is a big problem. So I slow down and articulate more clearly. Or resort to a common language. But if I'm working with someone who speaks "well," most of the effort is spent on correcting the other person's speech not their listening because speaking is the ultimate challenge 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6589 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 46 of 186 21 September 2012 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Edited by Serpent on 21 September 2012 at 5:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5373 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 47 of 186 21 September 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
So what your saying is that it's easier to produce a perfect sentence than to understand every word of a movie? Surely that's not what we've been debating... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6589 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 48 of 186 21 September 2012 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It's not about perfection. It's often easier to get your point across than to understand a movie or even an ordinary native speaker.
And as for movies being the hardest, it depends. In a related language you can understand them well despite not being able to speak it. But if you're trying to learn to speak and only learn to understand, you're lazy. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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