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Can adult learners achieve native levels? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes  Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 137 of 303 12 October 2012 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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People seem to forget that there are professionals called dialect coaches and accent reduction specialists who do what we are talking about here. If you have lots of money and time, you can learn to speak, let's say, perfect Australian English for a movie part with the help of a dialect coach. I don't think that they aim is to change your way of speaking permanently.
Now, the accent reduction people do aim for permanent results. As their title suggests, they aim to attenuate thick accents and not necessarily produce native-sounding speakers. Anyway, I think most of this debate is useless. Everybody is for a good accent. Everybody is for good grammar and good vocabulary. We are all trying the best we can. We are all interested in using good tools and techniques. The end results vary, that's all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fireballtrouble Triglot Senior Member Turkey Joined 4525 days ago 129 posts - 203 votes Speaks: Turkish*, French, English Studies: German | Message 138 of 303 12 October 2012 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Regarding the fluency in speaking and wealth in vocabulary, native-like profiency is
achievable but for the part of pronunciation, we need to consider that our mother tongue effects immensely the adaptation of our vocal anatomy. Endless trainings and ambition may give you a really good pronunciation but there will be always rare-but-small bugs which will force a native listener to think that you're foreigner. Although you can learn all the sounds of the target language, the anatomical heritage gained through your mother tongue will continue to tend to appear sometimes. Edited by fireballtrouble on 12 October 2012 at 2:57pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 139 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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How many lessons with an accent reductionist does an average person need in order to
develop good pronunciation? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4669 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 140 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I can pronounce French in the native way, but it makes my articulatory system (for the lack of better expression) almost ''bleed'' . French pronunciation puts tension on my lips, and most sounds are pronounced in the anterior part of the oral cavity. Speaking a native-like French is stressful for me. What's the use of sounding native when the production is almost painful and not enjoyable?
So, in a way, children are more flexible. They keep doing things that are stressful and painful for them (because their teachers force them, or their parents force them etc)... But, we adults...Many times prefer to quit...We can say: ''it's to stressful'' or ''it not the right thing for me''... Edited by Medulin on 12 October 2012 at 3:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5848 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 141 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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I started learning Dutch at the age of 22 years and I have achieved a kind of native level in Dutch inculding the Dutch accent. What's is remarkable about that is that besides a stay of 4-5 months I have never lived in the Netherlands. I only have had regular phonecontact and e-mail contact with a Dutch friend for many years. And I was able to visit the Netherlands form time to time in the weekend.
These are favourble circumstances which I don't have for my other foreign language and therefore I will not reach the same proficiency and accent in my other foreign languages. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 12 October 2012 at 7:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 142 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
What do you mean by "good pronunciation" and what was the person's pronunciation like before they started? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 143 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | ||
French is not even included in the list of languages you speak. That might explain the problem. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 144 of 303 12 October 2012 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | ||
If you don't sound like an idiot at the beginning, you're DOING IT WRONG. You should feel like it's a little weird doing it, and gradually you'll get accustomed to pronouncing things differently. I still feel like a tool pronouncing Swedish or Russian. But at least it's a far cry from my initial utterances. You're a beginner. It *is* going to be different whatever you do. If you're not going to accept that for speaking French you must do what is natural to a French person, you might as well go kitesurfing. Edited by tarvos on 12 October 2012 at 3:30pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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