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Can adult learners achieve native levels? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4718 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 265 of 303 27 October 2012 at 7:27am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, actually I wanted to ask you about that challenge thread. I didn't get to see what it was about before you deleted it. I would like to see stuff like that. Sometimes you seem to give in too quickly to people who have knee-jerk, emotional reactions. Even if many people jump on you, you should still stand your ground if you believe you are being logical and they are being emotional. I was more upset to see it was really only one guy who made you drop the idea. Leave people like him to me.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 266 of 303 27 October 2012 at 7:45am | IP Logged | ||
I had nothing to gain personally from the challenge. If there is no interest, there is no reason to bother. I just wrote a post on my log to give a better idea of what I meant about picking up errors from oral exchanges. Post 381, my log 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| A boldog kutyam Newbie United Kingdom Joined 4413 days ago 1 posts - 3 votes Studies: German | Message 267 of 303 28 October 2012 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I lived in Hungary and Germany for 5 years and during that time met many people who used their native language so infrequently that they often forgot words in it. In addition, their ability in German and Hungarian had reached as level that made them indistinguishable from the locals; 30+ years is a very long time to "perfect" anything. Edited by A boldog kutyam on 28 October 2012 at 1:18pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Hiiro Yui Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4718 days ago 111 posts - 126 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese | Message 268 of 303 28 October 2012 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Arekkusu, it's true that many people aren't expressing interest, but I think about it like this: there could be thousands of people reading but not responding to what we are trying to do. Somehow the people who are opposed to our ideas have what it takes to voice their opposition, while our supporters think we will go ahead with our plans even without their input. It's kind of like the voting system here. Some people might vote your message useful, but you have no idea what they really think or if the number of votes is representative of how many people support you. I never vote for posts I agree with. One person voted for the post where you called for an experiment (#176). Okay, maybe that's not impressive, but 2 people voted for the follow up post (#181). Just imagine all the people who read the forum but who aren't members and can't vote. More people may be nodding along with us than you think. We may be in the minority, but that doesn't mean we're wrong or our efforts are pointless.
In addition, some people do voice their support and say they would like to participate, but can't. Sprachprofi voiced support in the pronunciation challenge thread, but she doesn’t have enough confidence in her abilities to participate (and someone voted for her post). Luai lashire said on your log that he's too embarrassed to post videos of himself. Montmorency said he would like to participate in an experiment, but his hearing issues would get in the way. Maybe these people just need a little push, and I want to encourage them to participate by telling them, “But that’s the point. Not everyone is good at this stuff. Let’s document (using video/audio) how techniques that work for some people don’t necessarily work for others. No need for embarrassment.” 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 269 of 303 28 October 2012 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | ||
Please leave the boasting for somewhere where people do take you seriously. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 270 of 303 29 October 2012 at 1:23am | IP Logged | ||
I always find it hard to imagine losing the ability to speak English. If I lived in Italy for 30 years, speaking only Italian, would I really forget how to say cucumber? I suppose it depends at what age you leave your own country and whether you maintain contact with relatives back home. Also the extent to which you speak with fellow expats in your new homeland. Nobody learns a langauage instantly upon arrival in a new country, or has existing skills in it equal to those in their native tongue. There must be a period - in some cases several years - where the two languages vie for supremacy in your mind. It must take some time for your brain to "drop" the language you learned as a child and used every day as your main form of communication. Edited by beano on 29 October 2012 at 1:26am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4702 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 271 of 303 30 October 2012 at 12:41am | IP Logged | ||
覚悟しなさい、ネット武士 :p 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7016 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 272 of 303 30 October 2012 at 1:36am | IP Logged | ||
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"Leave people like him to me" and the other moderators to sort out, just concentrate on contributing lots of nice and positive comments.
Anyway, now that we've had an irrelevant-to-the-thread mini discussion and general show of machismo, let's return to the topic on hand. P.S. Please provide translations for texts not written in English. It's tiresome having to read through Google's attempt and my Japanese is nowhere in the vicinity of the ballpark to have a stab at it. Edited by patuco on 30 October 2012 at 1:38am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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