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Can adult learners achieve native levels? | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4933 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 49 of 303 02 October 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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With regards to high quality texts it is usually hard identify whether the writer is native or not. In my opinion a good bunch of non-native HTLAL writers could qualify as natives if they wanted to.
Accent often finally reveals whether the speaker is native or not. However from written type it is much harder to judge if the author is just a sloppy local or an ignorant alien. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 50 of 303 02 October 2012 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The Joseph Conrad phenomenon refers exactly to the ability of a language learner to achieve native-like writing skills but retain a strong foreign accent when speaking. All his life Joseph Conrad suffered from this because he was only too aware that audiences were surprised to hear the great master of English prose speak with a strong Polish accent.
I would think that this is a relatively common phenomenon. I don't want to say that writing is easier than speaking because some people here may get all worked up, but the good thing about writing is that you can revise and think about your words before publishing them. Speaking on the other hand is immediate, spontaneous and requires complex coordination of the vocal apparatus. If Conrad were around today, he would certainly employ the services of an accent reduction specialist or a dialect coach. In fact, I believe that to get to really high levels of linguistic performance capability, it is essential to get external help. You can't correct your own writing. You can't correct your own speaking mistakes. Nothing can replace having a third party critique what you are doing. It can save vast amounts of time and frustration. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 51 of 303 02 October 2012 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
As I've said, it depends on the person whether phonetics or grammar are harder to take to a native-like level. And on the language too. How many mistakes will be forgiven due to a good accent TOTALLY depends on the language. Some mistakes are just too obvious and will never get you considered "backwards", but simply a non-native with a good pronunciation. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4623 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 52 of 303 02 October 2012 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've heard many people in the UK say that the Dutch and Scandanavians speak better English than we do. Edited by beano on 02 October 2012 at 2:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 53 of 303 02 October 2012 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
The perception here is that the Dutch and the Scandinavians speak a more formal or less slangy kind of English. Many people equate this with speaking better English. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5382 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 54 of 303 02 October 2012 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
I sense a challenge... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5431 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 55 of 303 02 October 2012 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I believe that the best way to take your language skills to a high level is to work with a language buddy or, preferably, a trained language coach. This way you can target your specific problems with precise exercises and drills. The only problem is that this can be expensive.
Failing that, you have to make do with imitating good models to the best of your ability. This can work of course but it tends to be haphazard. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4702 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 56 of 303 02 October 2012 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
He imitates speakers of his target language who speak English (his mother tongue). It's easier for someone to distinguish the differences in sound in their own tongue. You can imitate the characteristics and then apply this "accent" to your target languages. Works exceptionally well for him. I'm still in my learning phase and more busy with vocab. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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