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If the Listening - Reading works, then... | ||
Tags: Listening-Reading (L-R) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes  Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 33 of 39 10 November 2012 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
About 80 hours, several years ago, if memory serves. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 34 of 39 10 November 2012 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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With Polish text as opposed to Polish audio???
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| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6437 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 35 of 39 10 November 2012 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Polish audio, English-Polish parallel texts.
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| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6445 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 36 of 39 13 November 2012 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As someone noted, L-R is not the same as watching TV shows. L-R involves a book, its translation and the audio version of the original. The other approach does not really have a name. You could call it the "TV method" even though it is not really a method. I object to calling the L-R approach "20 times more efficient". I don't think anyone here can make that observation without extensive research and I have yet to meet anyone other than the original poster of the L-R manifest who actually went through the whole battery of L-R study as intended. In my experience passive TV watching produces results within 1-3 years, assuming 1-3 hours of TV watching and an occasional weekend and making a jump from any of the three main Indo-European branches. Japanese TV watching also produces results, but in my opinion it is too much of a jump for an adult learner to call it efficient learning. An additional serious hindrance is that most adults have no patience for incomprehensible TV shows. A few may find them interesting and amusing. Even fewer people will stick around long enough to actually accomplish anything.
In my opinion, subtitles are a great hindrance when used as intended. I believe raw tv is more "efficient" in the sense that it eventually produces a result. Subtitled TV shows do not create language speakers as evidenced by millions of TV viewers in many countries. When used as a conscious language tool, subtitles may work, although such use is subject to strain and conscious effort and therefore of short duration and as such dramatically different from the hypnotic effect and involuntary learning through passive TV watching. When used as attended, subtitles draw too much attention away from the source. As for the source material, I find it more approachable than most books as it is full of visual cues, the material is less dense, and the indispensible vocabulary and grammatical forms are drilled into on a daily basis. Documentaries and other types of TV shows can significantly widen one's vocabulary but few people will watch the full gamut of programming vs a single type of entertainment. Audiobooks on their own are a great source for breaking into, and actually learning closely related languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 37 of 39 13 November 2012 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| reineke Senior Member United States https://learnalangua Joined 6445 days ago 851 posts - 1008 votes Studies: German | Message 38 of 39 14 November 2012 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
Those crazy Europeans? Of course they have tried! Study on the use of subtitling The potential of subtitling to encourage language learning and improve the mastery of foreign languages Link Edited by reineke on 14 November 2012 at 5:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 39 of 39 15 November 2012 at 2:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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I see no contradiction:) Of course subtitles are a useful tool. But those that get them by default don't treat them as a language learning tool but just as a comprehension aid. AFAIU it's less of "I want to learn English so I'll watch a subtitled movie" and more of simply "I want to watch this movie so I'll watch it."
Many Russians consciously use subtitles to learn English, but their results usually aren't as brilliant as the Scandinavians'... unless they do their best to watch everything in the original, and not just one movie per week, as a study session with possible word lists and whatnot. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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