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Js6426 TAC 2013 Asian Team 鶴 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes  Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 33 of 89 01 February 2013 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes the issue here is certainly the education and the results of the Khmer Rouge. What makes it worse is that there are no up to date dictionaries. An example word would be something like កាលានុវត្តភាព which simply means 'opportunity', and yet virtually nobody I have spoken to knows it, and it can't be found in the dictionary. As you look through up to date press releases from various ministries they are filled with words that are being released by the government, but your average guy in Battambang has never heard it in his life, nor is it in any dictionary. So these words aren't even always 'difficult' words. I know a guy who has been here in Cambodia for 20 years, very intelligent guy, and when he speaks Khmer people find it very hard to know what he is saying because the words he uses are unheard of except in the government circles he works in. Then of course there are words that don't exist because the concept doesn't exist, such as sarcasm. If you look it up in the dictionary you will find the word, but nobody knows what it means, nor do they understand the concept of sarcasm or irony! The country is progressing very slowly, and what would be a great help would be more resources for the Khmer people themselves to delve deeper in their own language, and also for us who want to learn to speak at a higher level. I guess in some languages you can't express yourself because you don't yet have the vocabulary, but in Khmer often you can't do it simply because there isn't yet the vocabulary! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 34 of 89 01 February 2013 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | ||
Just caught this, super interesting. In Khmer លោក means person or world, and អភិវឌ្ឍន៍ means to develop, so you could say 'aphiwatloak' in Khmer and it would also amount to globalization! I really must study Thai someday, some of the ressemblances seem striking! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| viedums Hexaglot Senior Member Thailand Joined 4666 days ago 327 posts - 528 votes Speaks: Latvian, English*, German, Mandarin, Thai, French Studies: Vietnamese | Message 35 of 89 03 February 2013 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, it’s important to mention the role of the Khmer Rouge. However, I’m a bit skeptical of the idea that we should expect people to actively learn new words produced by government officials. Even in countries with highly literate populations, it’s rare that that kind of linguistic engineering is successful. Instead of the word you mention for ‘opportunity,’ why not just use ឱកាស? (There’s even a Thai cognate for this, โอกาส.) Of course there are different registers in language, so there is a place for such words.
You’re right that there are close parallels between Thai and Khmer for this type of vocabulary, although speaking for myself, it was a bit hard to get used to how these words are pronounced in Khmer, given the way the vowels change depending on consonant class. I found reading the Radio Free Asia news stories in Khmer pretty easy with a dictionary, so I’ve never really encountered the problem you’re talking about. My experience with Khmer is limited, though. With Thai and Khmer, the similarities and correspondences can be uncanny – if you know one well, you’ll probably find that when you come to study the other, you have a kind of sixth sense or instinct for how things work, which can make studying fun. So I would try it if you get the chance! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 36 of 89 05 February 2013 at 10:05am | IP Logged | ||
Oh I have absolutely no desire for Khmer people to learn new words produced by the government! That is not my intention at all, but I would like to know them for myself. I don't even think the intention of the government is to release these new words in an attempt to get people to learn them, they simply need words to describe things for which there don't exist other words. As you said, there is a place for such words. I want to know as much of the language as possible, and if there are documents that have new words for me in then I find that interesting and want to pick up those words. When I talk to people I always use the word ឱកាស but when I read something that doesn't use that word I am lost unless I learnt the alternative! I might try and study Thai at some point in the future, everybody tells me if you know one the other becomes easier! Reading and writing Thai seems harder to me though, I had a look but trying to work out how to assign the correct tone gave me a headache! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 37 of 89 06 February 2013 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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6/2/13 - Assimil done up to 82, Pimsleur 16. Hanzi coming on not too bad, seem to be hitting at least my goal of
20 a week. Spent quite a bit of time on memrise again and I feel it's helping quite a lot. I downloaded the flashcard addon for Pleco for my iphone so that I can stick some characters in there and flick through when I am out and about and have a spare minute. Feel like I need to motivate myself to speak more. I often do a sentence or two with my wife but then revert quickly back to Khmer because I can't express myself well and it frustrates me. I know that I need to push through and just keep going at it until it clicks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 38 of 89 12 February 2013 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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12/2/13 - Not been a very productive week on the language side of things unfortunately. Up to Assimil 86 and
Pim 18. Anki up to date on my main decks. Spent some time on Memrise. I have stopped trying to learn lots of vocab out of context because it doesn't seem to be working very well, I am ending up with words that I don't really know how to use or words I forget very fast through not using them. Instead I am just going to learn vocab as and when it comes up, and really focus on speaking more. When I have improved a bit then I imagine new words will be easier to learn anyway, as that was certainly the case with Khmer. Spent a few minutes earlier finding the lyrics to the Chinese song I will learn for the challenge this month and practicing singing it through (still reading the pinyin), I had a lot of fun if nothing else! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 39 of 89 22 February 2013 at 11:39am | IP Logged | ||
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22/2/13 - Again I feel that I haven't been able to do very much as I have been busy, but still, something is better
than nothing! I am up to Pimsleur 22, Assimil 91, and I did a lesson out of Chinese Made Easier book 2. I suppose this week has been quite productive for Khmer as I learnt a few new words and translated for a community development seminar, it was a good chance to learn and use some things that wouldn't come up outside of this more specialized area. I am managing to keep up with Anki, and even if all else fails I still usually manage to get my decks done every day. Really need to get down to learning my song, haven't looked at it at all since my last update! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| js6426 Diglot Senior Member Cambodia Joined 4520 days ago 277 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English*, Khmer Studies: Mandarin | Message 40 of 89 28 February 2013 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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28/2/13 - Feel like I have done quite well this week. Up to Pims 26 and Assimil 96. Not too long until I will have
reached the end of both Pimsleur and Assimil. At that point I plan to do the third Pimsleur and then really start using the Chinese Made Easier book 2 and continuing with the rest of the books in the series. Spent quite a bit of time on Memrise again, and my anki decks are all up to date. I am at about 400 characters now that I can read and write so i'm pleased with that, my goal is to get at least 1000 by the end of the year and it seems like I should be able to do that if I keep going at this pace, figuring in the fact that I will forget more characters as I learn more. The Hanzi poster I bought is really helping me, and I am finding now that I will learn a new word and suddenly realize I know one of the characters in it. I think also the characters are becoming easier to write because of the fact I now know most of the radicals. All in all this has been an ok month, I enjoyed the team challenge of learning part of a song. My focus for next month really needs to be practicing speaking. My listening skills are terrible but I think that is just going to take lots of time and listening, whereas speaking I really am going to have to force myself to do it, even if I get frustrated. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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