patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map
| Message 9 of 40 12 August 2006 at 5:14am | IP Logged |
Andy Liu wrote:
patuco wrote:
I think it depends on where you go in Europe. As delectric mentioned, most French people aren't too comfortable in other languages. This is also true for most British and Spanish people. Perhaps the more obsucure the language is, the more likely a citizen of that country will speak at least one other language. |
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Obscure? Do you mean those with less native speakers? |
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Yes. Sorry about the poor choice of words :)
lady_skywalker wrote:
I've even seen people back home in bilingual Gibraltar who can't speak either English or Spanish fluently (I'm not refering to our local patois here but English and Spanish proper) but who would no doubt claim fluency in both in an instant. |
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I know exactly what you mean! This is one of the reasons why my wife and I are trying to raise our children truly bilingually.
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lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6892 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian
| Message 10 of 40 12 August 2006 at 6:05am | IP Logged |
patuco wrote:
I know exactly what you mean! This is one of the reasons why my wife and I are trying to raise our children truly bilingually. |
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Good on you! I know too many people back home who are not very good with either language as they don't try to differentiate enough between them (my cousins are good examples of this). How do you go about raising your children truly bilingually? Do you and your wife speak a different language to them or do you just stick to one language at a time? In my case, my mum spoke to me in English most of the time while my granny spoke to me only in Spanish (then again, she doesn't speak English so this wasn't too hard). :)
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neo Diglot Groupie IndiaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6808 days ago 81 posts - 83 votes Speaks: Hindi*, English Studies: German, Italian
| Message 11 of 40 12 August 2006 at 7:01am | IP Logged |
lady_skywalker wrote:
Generally speaking, Europeans probably have a lot more opportunities to learn other languages because of :
+ The relative freedom of movement and small size of Europe (in some cases, it takes less time to go to another country than it is to travel to another state in the USA). This allows more interaction with people from other countries and language backgrounds.
+ The fact that most European schools teach at least 1 foreign language for several years. Some teach 2 or 3.
+ The existence of the EU probably has a lot to do with the importance of French, German and English as these are the 3 most important languages for communication in a union where over 20 different languages are given 'official' status.
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So the fact that almost all languages enjoy official status and education policies favouring teaching of 2-3 languages at school level facilitates multiple language acquisition for europeans.
This could as well be said for India !!
We have more than 20 official languages and English exists as a 2nd official language at par with hindi.
And education policies recommend teaching of each particular state's official language (bengali,punjabi,marathi,gujrati etc) along with English and sometimes there is an option to choose a third language as well,hindi.
So most indians are multilinguals and in resumes have to indicate fluencies by "written and/or read and/or spoken"
So,I can speak perfect bengali as I learned by immersion and cannot read or write it and am fluent in hindi/english in all three forms.
I hope to take the "languages-known" count on my resume to 5 by adding German and italian in near future :)
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patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map
| Message 12 of 40 12 August 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged |
lady_skywalker wrote:
How do you go about raising your children truly bilingually? Do you and your wife speak a different language to them or do you just stick to one language at a time? |
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We figured that since they will be using English in school (they're not old enough yet, though!) we'll exclusively use Spanish at home. It was hard at first, especially the temptation to slip into Llanito, but we're getting used to it. Since my wife and I both have to use English for our jobs, it actually gives us a welcome break at home. When they're older and can read and write, we plan on using native Spanish textbooks designed for their age groups and teach them at home.
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lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6892 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian
| Message 13 of 40 12 August 2006 at 7:16am | IP Logged |
neo wrote:
So the fact that almost all languages enjoy official status and education policies favouring teaching of 2-3 languages at school level facilitates multiple language acquisition for europeans.
This could as well be said for India !! |
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Yes, but I never said Europe was the only place on Earth that had these favourable conditions. I am fully aware that similar opportunities exist in India and in many other areas at linguistic crossroads. :)
The original question was how is it that European citizens can end up being fluent in 3-4 languages and the reasons given in my previous post were based on my interpretation of the language learning situation on the continent. Multilingualism is practically a prerequisite for most jobs in continental Europe while the freedom of travel and language learning at school do indeed help expose us to other languages. But I have to stress that just because many Europeans can 'speak' another language, they are not necessarily fluent in it.
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lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6892 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian
| Message 14 of 40 12 August 2006 at 7:20am | IP Logged |
patuco wrote:
We figured that since they will be using English in school (they're not old enough yet, though!) we'll exclusively use Spanish at home. It was hard at first, especially the temptation to slip into Llanito, but we're getting used to it. Since my wife and I both have to use English for our jobs, it actually gives us a welcome break at home. When they're older and can read and write, we plan on using native Spanish textbooks designed for their age groups and teach them at home. |
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Sounds like an excellent plan and I can understand how hard it is not to lapse into Llanito at times. Sometimes I take the 'easy' way out and not bother to find the proper Spanish or English words for things!
I will have to look into similar 'bilingual upbringing' plans in future as any children my partner and I have will likely need to know at least Dutch and English. Whether we will use a 'one parent speaks one language' approach or have some sort of language rota has yet to be determined. :)
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patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 7017 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map
| Message 15 of 40 12 August 2006 at 8:03am | IP Logged |
lady_skywalker wrote:
I will have to look into similar 'bilingual upbringing' plans in future as any children my partner and I have will likely need to know at least Dutch and English. |
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Why don't you raise them trilingually (with Spanish also) or even quadrilingually (with Spanish and Mandarin)?
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lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6892 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian
| Message 16 of 40 12 August 2006 at 8:09am | IP Logged |
patuco wrote:
lady_skywalker wrote:
I will have to look into similar 'bilingual upbringing' plans in future as any children my partner and I have will likely need to know at least Dutch and English. |
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Why don't you raise them trilingually (with Spanish also) or even quadrilingually (with Spanish and Mandarin)? |
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Not sure about the Mandarin as I don't speak it well enough to teach anyone but Spanish will certainly be on the list. I just don't want to confuse a young kid with too many languages as the Dutch school system does teach French, German and English as foreign languages. Still, not a bad idea to give a young child as many languages as they can handle, eh? :)
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