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Platiquemos versus Barrons FSI | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 25 of 51 31 August 2005 at 5:05am | IP Logged | ||
I'm actually doing that with the audio. Once you've created a shortened version with pauses, it's much easier to make a no pause version. That's 20/20 hindsight for me. Each illustration ends up in several forms so I can use them where appropriate. The forms I have are: 1) Original Platiquemos 2) Platiquemos with translation and only one repeat. Pauses are long enough to be a drill. 3) Platiquemos with translation and sentence and no time for repeat. (the passive version). 4) Barrons recording with shortened pauses - time enough to repeat the phrase. (version with no English). I do the same with the basic dialogs. Originally, I had shortened some of them to have no pauses so they could be used for shadowing. It's turned out to be effective to have the "no pause" as well as a short pause version. FSI calls the no pause versions "dialog for listening". They call the short pause version "dialog for fluency". Edited by luke on 06 January 2006 at 9:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 26 of 51 31 August 2005 at 5:31am | IP Logged | ||
One could compare this "passive learning" version to Programmatic Spanish's (PS) "comprehension check", which has a very similar format for some of it's dialogs. PS describes this "observation" mode. By the way, comparing the lengths of the recordings: 1) Original Platiquemos 2:53 2) Single repeat Platiquemos 1:24 3) Passive version :53 Edited by luke on 31 August 2005 at 5:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 27 of 51 24 September 2005 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
I seem to be a slow plodding learner, but I also like to see the big picture. I've got an approach for my big picture self to use Platiquemos to do a "first wave" on units 31-45 while my plodder is perfecting units 1-30. It helps me keep a sense of progress during what will probably be a 2 month review of units 1-30. Here's the "first wave" technique applied to Platiquemos: 1) Focus on only 2 parts of each unit. The dialog, and the illustrations. Use the same technique for both parts. 2) Split dialog or illustration into 3 recordings. a) English and Spanish without pauses. b) English and Spanish with pause. c) Spanish without pauses. 3) Listen to and read (a) for comprehension. 4) Use (b) for reading/speaking. 5) Once (b) is easy, start shadowing (a) with book. 6) When (b) is easy, use (c) with book. 7) Repeat 3-6 with the illustrative sentences. Read the "extrapolation" too. Doing 3-7 is about a 20 minute practice the first day. The prior lesson can be reviewed in about 10 minutes. Earlier lessons can be reviewed in 2-5 minutes by just doing steps 5-6 or just step 6. Initially, I'll just be reading the lesson. My hope is that by the time I start the "second wave" (doing whole units), I'll have reviewed the dialogs to the point of memorizing them and have an intuitive understanding of the lessons. The "third wave" review of units 1-30 is helping a lot. I find myself thinking in Spanish more. My "third wave" is doing the units with abbreviated pauses. While reviewing today with a dialog recording like (a) above, I'm starting to imagine "fourth wave". Fourth wave would be doing all drills without pauses and shadowing the Spanish responses. Something like this: wave 3 of units 1-30 while doing wave 1 on units 31-45. wave 2 units 31-45 wave 3 units 31-45 simultaneous with wave 1 46-55 wave 2 units 46-55 wave 4 units 1-30 wave 3 units 31-55 wave 4 units 31-55 So wave 4 perfectionism wouldn't begin in earnest until I've technically completed the course. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7037 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 28 of 51 27 September 2005 at 7:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi,
Before starting with Platiquemos I'm doing Pimsleur first (3 levels and the Plus version). I do this because Pimsleur teaches pronunciation very well and it's easier to start with I think. Anyway, suppose I finish Pimsleur in february 2006 and then start with Platiquemos, when will I know enough Spanish for a decent conversation and maybe also understand Spanish television? Must I finish all levels of Platiquemos or will it be más temprano? :) Muchas gracias :) Tuffy Edited by tuffy on 27 September 2005 at 8:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7197 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 29 of 51 27 September 2005 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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The way I view it is this:
Levels 1-2 Completed: Very basic conversations. Not to say the grammar is easy but the situations are rather specific. Levels 3-4 Completed: Mastery of the following tenses: I go I have gone I am going I went I was going I used to go I am going to go At this point you will probably consider yourself conversational, the only lack is vocab. Maybe Luke can help, he's been through these levels. Levels 5-6 Completed Very good conversational skill. Only lacking future tense, subjunctive tenses, idioms, and other low frequency items. Levels 6-8 Fluent? These are only my guesses from looking at levels 1-2 Barron's which I've been using and the contents page of Platiquemos. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| czech Senior Member United States Joined 7197 days ago 395 posts - 378 votes Studies: English* | Message 30 of 51 27 September 2005 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Platiquemos contents:
http://www.platiquemos-letstalk.com/ProgramContents/ProgamCo ntMain.htm Platiquemos proficiency scale: http://www.platiquemos-letstalk.com/About/Proficiency.htm Oh, and one more thing, Platiquemos doesn't teach ear comprehension worth a damn. So get on the tube and start reading the morning paper. Remember, if you follow Pimsleur and Platiquemos, that's all you'll need except for reading a fiew magazines with a dictionary(and listening). Edited by czech on 27 September 2005 at 4:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 31 of 51 17 October 2005 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Listening to unit 31 from foreignserviceinstitute.com (fsicom) I heard the variation and review drills did not have the usual English prompts. These two drills are translation exercises. Platiquemos thankfully has the prompts for unit 31. Platiquemos doesn't have the review drills. It does have the conversational stimulus that aren't in fsicom.
I listened to the variations and review drills in fsicom unit 32, and the prompts are back, which I appreciate. The missing prompts gave me an idea of another way to use the audio. That is to do the exercises with the book and audio. I.E. read the English prompt and say the translation before the mp3 says the correct translation. That may be a small revelation to most, but I don't look at the book very often. It seems to me this could be helpful as another way to drill the material. One could do the same thing with no audio whatsoever, but the audio keeps the ears tuned in. I came up with a revision to the 3 wave technique, and it's working well. The 3 wave technique covers three different Platiquemos levels at the same time. wave 1 - Basic dialog and illustrations for units 1-7 higher than the current "wave 2" unit. Go through one unit per night. Cycle through all units in the level. Sentence buildups removed from recordings. Do this wave with book. (5-15 minutes) wave 2 - Normal study of level N. Begins with unmodified Platiquemos recording - walking the dog. wave 3 - Review of level N-1 with "higher standards" for correctness, comprehension, and speed of answering. Done in the car. So the tweaks are not to get too far ahead with wave 1, and use dog walking time to move ahead in the course. All three waves happen each day. Edited by luke on 06 January 2006 at 9:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| BPinOR Newbie United States Joined 6910 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 32 of 51 28 December 2005 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for this useful thread. I have been trying to sort through the confusing issue of Platiquemos and FSI (as well as the differences between FSI programmatic and FSI Basic). As far as I can tell, Platiquemos is an update of FSI Basic, which Barron's used to publish "Mastering Spanish" (although Barron's only goes through the first half or so, and then one must find the rest elsewhere (at Audioforum)).
I've decided (with the help of another thread on differences between FSI Programmatic and FSI Basic) to try FSI Basic. Now, shall it be FSI Basic in the form of Barron's (and then Audioforum for the more advanced parts), or shall it be Platiquemos? One issue is cost. I can get Barron's Mastering Spanish used (Amazon, etc)- volume one is quite inexpensive, volume two is about $50. But then I have to go to Audioforum for the advanced parts (A and B) -- about $225 each!. I can download all of Platiquemos for about $169. So Platiquemos turns out cheaper, seems to me. Does anyone have any feedback on this, regarding sources, prices, or anything else? One thing I may be missing is whether Platiquemos indeed covers everything from FSI Basic (Barrons plus Audioforum A and B). This whole thing is so complicated that I think I am going to make a table out of it when I get if figured out. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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