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You are not a real polyglot if... | ||
Tags: Polyglot | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 257 of 299 02 November 2013 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Let's not make it more of a mess than it already is. There's no consensus on how many languages are enough, at what level and whether all combinations are equal. If we add testing into the mix, there will also be no consensus on whether tests should be required or not, how many languages at what level (did you honestly expect everyone to agree with C1 x 3?), and whether it should be the same level as what they consider a requirement for polyglots. (I personally think that certified polyglots don't need a certificate above B2, I'll take their word that they are actually C1 or C2 especially if it's been some time since they passed B2. My Finnish C1 exam lasted 5 hours and cost €140 and I really don't think it's right to demand that of everyone even in one language)
Not to mention that you're the only one who thinks that a person who passed C1 in the four standards of BCSM is a polyglot (as of now I doubt it's even offered in all four). No offence meant but I'd be far more impressed if someone passed an official examination in both European and Brazilian Portuguese. Also, most "CEFR-polyglots" will speak better than they understand, heh. Like for example the Norwegian test is the only one that deals with dialects afaiu. CEFR tests mostly care about the boring standard stuff like the radio and news and phone calls. Edited by Serpent on 02 November 2013 at 1:04pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5435 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 258 of 299 03 November 2013 at 1:42am | IP Logged | ||
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My proposal was an attempt to use an already existing system of certification to bring some solution to a problem. We either throw our arms up in the air and say that we can't agree on what a language is, on how many languages make a polyglot, on what proficiency level is required, on how to deal with related languages. It's all one big mess. Let's just give up.
I made a suggestion. If four languages are too many in order to be a polyglot, let's make it three. If C1 is too high, let's make it B2 or B1. My suggestion of certification is a proposal to call upon a third-party testing system. What is a better proposal? I'm open to suggestions. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6708 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 259 of 299 03 November 2013 at 9:49am | IP Logged | ||
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Let's just give up.
13 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6602 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 260 of 299 03 November 2013 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | ||
Also, the differences between America and Europe have been brought up before and I think they apply here too. You can cover pretty much all of your continent with English, French, Spanish and Portuguese (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only official language I left out is Guarani). While I'm not from the part of Europe where you can just randomly decide to go to a different country and drive there in 2 hours or less without needing a visa or anything, I can still spend a night on the train and be in Finland or Ukraine the next morning. Poland, Germany and Romania are not that far either, and I've never even travelled by plane so far (will hopefully change soon). And of course for many Europeans the worldwide importance of their L2 (or normally L3 after English) also matters. Certainly the views on how impressive it is to speak 1-2 foreign languages will differ between continents, countries and people. And this "base" is probably the root of the difference in our perceptions of those who speak more than that. Edited by Serpent on 03 November 2013 at 12:50pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4712 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 261 of 299 03 November 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Exactly. I've known families to have to travel around, picking up the local languages as
they go. The children would be bona fide polyglots, even by S_allard's criteria. They didn't do it as a labour of love (maybe partly), but I remember the telling remark that " we wouldn't have learn't so many languages if we hadn't moved around so much". The son of the family had had 7 languages through moving around and living abroad only!!!! 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5339 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 262 of 299 03 November 2013 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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@s allard: I understand your drive for having a neutral system, which is not based on self assessment alone.
The question is whether it makes sense. You can have two really opposed types of polyglots - one where they are great at speaking, but a disaster at grammar, and one where they can read, write, translate and explain all the grammar, but where they have put less emphasis on speech. In my world they would both be polyglots. The problem with formal testing, is that they may not give you credit for what you can do, but fail you for what you cannot. I could at one point do a 10 hour conversation in Italian without really searching for words - but I could not have given the simplest grammar rules, because I had learned the language by immersion only. Someone else might be able to explain all the grammar, and write a brilliant essay in Italian, but might feel shy to speak it. Who would be the real polyglot? Both, neither? And that is the eternal dilemma. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5435 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 263 of 299 03 November 2013 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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I totally agree with all these objections. The only conclusion we can safely make is that a polyglot is a person who
knows more than one language. Everthing else is open to interpretation. (I deliberately used the word knows instead of speaks.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Henkkles Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4258 days ago 544 posts - 1141 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: Russian | Message 264 of 299 03 November 2013 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Kind of reminds me of why I resigned from the term in the first place.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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