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Dead Languages & Polyglottery | ||
Tags: Sanskrit | Polyglottery | Romance Languages | Dead Languages | Alexander Arguelles | Greek | Latin | Reading | Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| FrancescoP Octoglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5955 days ago 169 posts - 258 votes  Speaks: Italian*, French, English, German, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Norwegian Studies: Georgian, Japanese, Croatian, Greek | Message 105 of 115 07 October 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I can't believe you couldn't find a bilingual edition of Spinoza's ethics! Look for it on the net, it's quite common for philosophers to throw Spinoza quotes in latin, myself being one of these weirdos, and the same goes for Erasmus and company. The problem might be that we're talking about expensive scientifical editions, but here a good library might help. Ah, of course, first give good old latin a try!
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| Tjerk Bilingual Pentaglot Groupie Belgium Joined 6762 days ago 54 posts - 59 votes Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, English, Spanish, French Studies: Swedish | Message 106 of 115 08 October 2008 at 2:09am | IP Logged | |||||
I beg to differ. I was speaking to a native Spanish speaking person who knew already several languages. It is definitely possible. As I pointed out, you only have to understand the language, not speak it and the language is extremely well ordered, so you recognize a lot of structure elements identically to the languages you already speak. Learning cases isn't that hard, ask anybody who learned German. It's quite easy to recognize them while reading, the hard part of cases is using them as you speak, but this is not necessary for reading Latin 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| FrancescoP Octoglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5955 days ago 169 posts - 258 votes Speaks: Italian*, French, English, German, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Norwegian Studies: Georgian, Japanese, Croatian, Greek | Message 107 of 115 08 October 2008 at 3:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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True enough, but I don't think, for example, that the use of ablative in that Caesar excerpt is so easy and straightforward for a layman. The same word "lingua" means "in a language" in a sentence and "concerning their language" in the next. The construction is clear, but it also requires some experience to be untangled. The use of relative pronouns and parallel constructions is sometimes a stumble block.
Also, if there was a thing that my latin professor taught me is that there is no "I kind of get the gist" for latin: either you understand every bit, and are able to account for all that's going on, or you simply don't know latin and you get an E. Highschool lore, perhaps, but people from Italy or Spain must be wary of false friends and that treacherous air of familiarity. Let's be frank about it, latin IS difficult. It can be learned fast by an adult, but what difference does it make to devote 6 or 48 months to a language that has been around for millennia? It's a LEGO(TM) language, ok, but it's also rich in evasive subtleties, which ultimately make up its charm. It's a language that unfolds with time, like good wine, so give it three or four years or what it takes and let it grow on you. If the whole point is just getting the sense, there are excellent translations in every bookstore. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6708 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 108 of 115 08 October 2008 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It may be difficult to resume in a few words how to use the ablative in Latin. But it is even more difficult to give rules for the uses of prepositions in English, and the use of prepositions instead of case markers is the way English deals with NOT having an ablative (or a rich case system in general). Every language is difficult enough to keep its speakers busy, but the problems are distributed differently. In in spite of the Latin teacher of Francesco P there certainly is something like getting the gist by disregarding some of the problems for a while, but sooner or later you have to deal with them.
I learnt Latin during two periods back in the 60s and 70s, and Cicero was on the program during the last period. I did reach the point where I could read his defence talks without too much of a problem, but I never learnt to speak the language, and therefore I forgot it almost totally when at long last I had taken my exam. There are two reasons for this. The first is obvious: nobody expected us to speak it or even to write it (apart from translations), and therefore we didn't train these skills. The second is more subtle: because our goal was to learn difficult texts - and the famous speeches by Cicero definitely are to be counted among these - reading them became something like a cirkus stunt. We were always working with texts beyond our capabilities and therefore never got time to consolidate our skills using easy texts. And to get active fluency you shouldn't start with the distant end point, you have to go through a phase where your utterances are quite basic, maybe even fragmentary and errorridden. I have been relearning my Latin (not continually, but in bursts as explained in other threads), but this time I seriously do try to think in Latin (at least while I'm reading texts), and of course I have to think in much more basic terms than the great Cicero with his contrived and artsy sentence constructions and large vocabulary. Unfortunately the 'easy reader' text base from the classic period is limited, so I will be thinking in a fairly formal style if I do succeed in learning Latin as an active language, but as I'm just doing it for fun and not for discussing with long dead Romans this really doesn't matter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5904 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 109 of 115 10 October 2008 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
I couldn't believe it either. If anyone can point me to a specific edition or copy, I would be very grateful! As it stands though, I've given up the idea of learning Latin. No sense whatsoever in doing so if I won't be able to procure the books I want to read in that language. I'm very disheartened. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5904 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 110 of 115 14 October 2008 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, I've since found a couple of bilingual editions at Amazon.de and Amazon.fr. The key was not to look for "Ethica", "bilingual" or "Latin", but simply search for "Spinoza" and then browse all editions.
While Latin editions of other important works from modernity remain frustratingly difficult to obtain, I think the influence of both the Roman world and its language upon ours, as well as its sheer beauty, merit me learning Latin after all. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Alkeides Senior Member Bhutan Joined 6153 days ago 636 posts - 644 votes | Message 111 of 115 25 November 2008 at 7:33am | IP Logged | |||||
Most Latin books have been in the public domain for at least a hundred years! (I mean those published in the 18th century) You can find loads of them on Google Books or various sites online. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5852 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 112 of 115 27 February 2009 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have learned Latin at grammar school and the point is that my normal ways of keeping a language fun and active don't work for this language. Let me give you examples:
1. Where can you find penfriends corresponding in Latin? 2. Where can you find popmusic in Latin? 3. Where can you find cooking books with recipes in Latin? 4. Where can you find people for a private conversation group in Latin? 5. Where can you buy modern astronomy books in Latin? 6. With whom can you exchange e-mails in Latin? Alls these questions show, what makes it difficult for me to maintain a suitable level of Latin, even more as I am not a reader of classical literature texts. Fasulye-Babylonia 1 person has voted this message useful |
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