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Letter to language programs publishers | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 44 12 April 2005 at 3:37am | IP Logged | ||
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Dear language-learning audio-course authors and publishers,
You'll be happy to know that I spend quite a bit of money on language learning materials. In fact, when I walk down the language aisle of my local bookstore, I often feel like a kid collecting baseball cards. "Got'm, got'm, got'm, need'm, got'm..." There's very little that I'd rather spend my money on than a really good audio course for my chosen language. And I work very hard at learning my new language. Unfortunately I have very little free time. So I try to squeeze every minute of learning time that I can out of every day. I walk around with my iPod strapped to my belt. I carry flashcards in my pockets. And, don't tell my boss, but my overstuffed briefcase contains about 80% language books and 20% work stuff. I know that the typical purchaser of language materials is probably very different. And I'm sure that some sophisticated marketing analysis has painted a very accurate picture of that typical purchaser. I figure the analysis probably includes a price point that's a little too low, and the fact that the typical purchaser will put the course in a drawer and never actually listen to it. But I'd like to offer a few suggestions. Most of these probably won't cost much to implement. Some may even save a few bucks. And now that language learners can communicate and share ideas and opinions on the Internet, you may want to rethink your marketing analysis. Introductions I can see where you might think it's very important to have a nice introduction to your course. After all, your course is great! So tell me that. And don't forget to tell me how much better my life will be after I've learned a new language. But tell me on a separate track. Remember, I'm learning a language here. I might have to listen to that first lesson 20 or 30 times. If your introduction is on the same track I'll be hearing it in my dreams. Instructions Same goes for instructions. If you insist on telling me to repeat after the speaker, just tell me once. I'm not a moron. And do it on a separate track. You can add it to the introduction or splurge and make an instruction track. Better yet, put it in a booklet. But for God's sake, stop putting instructions in every lesson. Explanations If you want to explain a point of grammar, that's fine. But if you want to do it in my native language, don't put it on the same track as the drills. I shouldn't have to listen to the same explanation every time I want to do the drills. I already speak my native language, almost by definition. If I don't understand your explanation the first time, I'll play it again. But I certainly won't need to hear it as often as I need to hear the drills. Short tracks Make the tracks short. Your lessons can be as long as you want, but you'll save me a lot of editing time if you divide the lessons into short tracks. If the tracks are short, I can easily skip ones that I've mastered and work more on the ones I haven't. Divide and conquer. It's the basic principle for accomplishing anything. Make the tracks short enough and I might not even have to make any edits. Chatter Don't tell jokes or give me cultural notes in my native language on the same track as a drill. If I want entertainment in my native language, I'll do something else. If I'm listening to your course, it's because I want to learn a foreign language. If you have something to say in my native language, put it on a separate track. I won't need or want to listen to it more than once. Music Don't put background music on your CDs. No matter how perfect your course is, I'm probably going to edit it. If you put music behind a lesson, you make it very difficult to edit. Besides, I probably don't like your music. And don't start every lesson with a musical introduction. If I turn on a lesson while I'm in line at the bank, I don't want to waste 30 seconds listening to that same damn music again. Native speakers I can't believe I actually have to say this, but please use native speakers. I've thrown away at least three courses because it was obvious that the target language speaker was not a native speaker of the target language. Duh. All I'm asking is that you look at it from my perspective. I'm investing a lot of time and money here. Please don't waste it. Anything in my native language that's not part of a drill should go on a separate track and the tracks should be short. Remember, A CD can have 99 tracks. I imagine that most of you have some experience with learning a second language. Isn't what I'm asking for the same thing you would want? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 44 12 April 2005 at 3:43am | IP Logged | ||
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Let me explain why I wrote that letter.
Last September, I wrote a review of an audio-course on Amazon. I gave the course two stars. It was a pretty bad review. A few days ago, the author of the course replied to my review by writing one of her own. My first instinct was to edit my review and reply to her reply. But I figured that wouldn't help anyone. So I thought about what I didn't like about most courses in general, and I decided to outline them here. The course that I reviewed on Amazon didn't break all of my "rules," but it broke some. Unfortunately for the author, I had very high expectations for her course but was disappointed. I'm thinking of putting the URL to this letter in my Amazon review but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7256 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 3 of 44 12 April 2005 at 8:27am | IP Logged | ||
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Heartburn, you have my heartfelt sympathies. Many's the time I have contemplated writing such a letter. However, I fear that it will do no good. One of the first posts I ever made to this forum was on the declining quality of language learning materials. The fact is not only that most of them are bad, but that they are even getting worse. The only explanation I can conceive of is that it is all pure marketing and packaging since the publishers know that most people who start learning a language are never going to continue with it anyway. Sad but true, I fear.
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 4 of 44 12 April 2005 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for your sympathy Ardaschir. I know that letter writing is probably wasted effort. But it makes me feel better. By the way, I went back and dug up that topic that you mentioned. I agree with your opinion. Here's a link to the topic:
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=17&KW=Ardaschir 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 5 of 44 12 April 2005 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for enough clues to find the review. A while back the Penton Overseas website had a track or so from 101 verbs on their site. That was nice, because I listened to it, and decided the verb course wasn't on par with other products I've purchased from Penton Overseas. Verbs 101 isn't expensive, but I've learned I get better results focusing my studies on the best programs I can find, rather than doing a little bit of 20 different programs. (I had to buy or check out the 20 programs before I learned the importance of focusing on those programs have impartial people saying, "this path took me to fluency") Don't take her rebuke too personally. Her axe was sharpened for the LSLC team. I'll write a review of another one of her programs which isn't too bad. Edited by luke on 12 April 2005 at 7:41pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 44 13 April 2005 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Good detective work Luke. :) I wasn't going to mention the name of the course that provoked the letter. But since you found me out, the full name of the course is "Learn in Your Car: Spanish Verbs 101." published by Penton Overseas.
I've been using Penton Overseas products for quite some time. While they aren't perfect, most are great compared to other products in the same price range. Their "Learn in Your Car" course is very well organized and fairly complete, if somewhat terse. And it's all business. So imagine how excited I was when I saw "Learn in Your Car: Spanish Verbs 101." Obviously a continuation of the "Learn in Your Car" course, by the same company, concentrating on verbs! Wrong! This course is nothing like the "Learn in Your Car" That I'm familiar with. And in a fit of disappointment, I gave this course only two stars. It probably deserves three because in reality, it isn't any worse than the average course in the same price range. The author claims she wanted to create an audio version of Christopher Kendris' "501 Spanish Verbs." I'm really not sure the world needs an audio version of this reference. I think it's some kind of law that every learner of Spanish own a copy of that book. But I can't picture myself fast-forwarding and rewinding, looking for a specific conjugation. Edited by heartburn on 13 April 2005 at 1:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7205 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 7 of 44 13 April 2005 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | ||
Yeah, the 101 Verbs price is tempting, but I've not been able to get myself to completely listen to the five minute track from the website, so it's been fairly easy to not buy it up to this point. I checked 501 verbs out of the library last weekend. I've only skimmed it thus far. I know of at least 3 books in this category. 501 verbs, Big Red Book (of verbs), and Webster's New World 575+ Spanish Verbs. My plan is to read the beginning and ends to see if they offer any secrets to learning all the tenses/moods. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| heartburn Senior Member United States Joined 7207 days ago 355 posts - 350 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 44 13 April 2005 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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After the way my lesson went tonight, I think I better look for "Spanish Verbs for Dummies."
1 person has voted this message useful |
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