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The dark side of language dominance | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5462 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 9 of 176 29 May 2014 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's a breath of fresh air to read... but I don't see this is sth that is already completely overwhelming. In fact my original topic was not just about English dominating. Many strong economic languages have had some effects on smaller languages- take standard Dutch and Flemish or Limburgs, and in turn English on Dutch. Take French in Africa, Thai in the northern highlands of Thailand and standard Italian on local dialects. What is the goal of stanadardizing languages from a top down perspective and 'rooting out' minority languages? Is it conformity with a governments idealogy? Perhaps now the stage has simply been englarged to the globe. I admit English prob has little impact in many areas of the world, but it's undeniably ahead of the pack by a long shot in my opinion Edited by PeterMollenburg on 29 May 2014 at 12:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5752 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 10 of 176 29 May 2014 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I heard Latin was all the rage in its day.
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| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5462 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 11 of 176 29 May 2014 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed it was, but all the rage was far from the current status English has. Correct me if I'm wrong, but English is far more globalized than any other language has been to date (in as far as our documented history goes back). IT, entertainment, politics and globalized economics has certainly provided the necessary avenues for that to occur. When it comes to money in this world, if you're developing an app, selling a book, composing a song, doing business, at a conference aimed at marketing something, making a film, which language will see a possible much higher profitability in terms of reaching an audience? English. The more it spreads the bigger the market. American economists have stated that the American economy MUST grow well beyond its borders to sustain it's growth. Capitalism is a beast that can never be satisfied, particularly when it's built on sustaining a circle of debt (ie borrowing money to make money), it must consume, and with the world's number one economy being conducted in the language that is English, it's inevitable then that English must spread. Add to that other first world countries like Canada, NZ, Ausrtralia, UK, Ireland, somewhat poorer countries like India with a massive growth potential and the fervour of English in non-English as first language speaking countries... the growth is going to continue. A random example: English publishing in ebooks Capitalism chews everything up in it's path, EVERYTHING becomes a commodity, indcluding lanuage. English has much more economic value than any other language. Edited by PeterMollenburg on 29 May 2014 at 1:14pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5752 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 12 of 176 29 May 2014 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
Similar things can be said about empires that were based on conquering other places. Sooner or later you run out of growth potential, and then the construct will collapse. That is, if is isn't transformed into something different before, then it's only part of it that collapses. Of course before that there are frantic attempts to find other ways to sustain yourself or keep on growing. Many years ago I read something very simple, and intriguing, namely that we humans tend to interpret occurances and the patterns we observe using a mental framework that is either based on a progressivist attitude, or based on something akin to a 'lost paradise' myth. And that that leads us to some very basic errors in predicting how the tendency we think we are seeing will continue and increase in the future: We expect the future to be like what we believe the past to be. Coming back to the topic, minor languages are dying out. With them, we lose local culture, and with the local culture, we lose the knowledge people transferred about how they managed to survive in that area, as well as the identity of people as the descendants of those people. We lose countless artemisins. Local culture changes, and more rapidly when it comes in contact with a dominant new culture. But at the same time, the 'dominant' culture also changes. And with them, the languages people speak. Think of the Norman conquest. Are you speaking French now? Or is it rather English, but an English that was changed and influenced by Norman French? Coming to think of it, why where the Normans speaking French, and not a Scandinavian language? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| AlexTG Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 4624 days ago 178 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 13 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Eh, call me selfish, but as long as a few dozen languages continue to exist so I never run out of new
languages to learn I'm happy. And the smaller the number of languages in existence the greater percentage of the world's new literature I'll be able to read. I'm thankful Senghor and Cesaire wrote their poems in French rather than their tribal languages. Edited by AlexTG on 29 May 2014 at 2:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5462 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 14 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
I read something recently along similar lines. So I agree, my lost paradise assumptions are probably way off. Very decent point indeed Bao! You know what my lost paradise prob goes something like this- I read a lot of articles recently based on the prediction that French will once again become a major world language by 2050 as the African population booms. All in all it was all based on one article, from a biast French source. I took it upon myself to find a less biast analysis which stated in all probability it is a likely scenario that French will indeed rise in prominence but unlikely to challenge top spot (English). That's great! I love French! Then I read much about the real economic goals of the western 'pillagers' of Africa and that it's indeed likely that French could be ever so gradually deliberately 'pushed' off the continent by English (U.S. mainly) in their pursuit for every more capital gain. All in all it's all possible I guess, but you're more than likely correct- what the future holds is highly likely to be nothing what we expect based on the past model.
Yes indeed, all very relevant. I am speaking a hybrid of some Germanic language with close ties to Frisian mixed with an evolved version of Norman French, throw in a sprinkling of Danish and some other languages and we arrive at modern English. If I lay down my distaste of globalization and think of English in isolation residing in England alone, it's an interesting language indeed, one that suits a culturally diverse world with mixed roots, but doesn't fit so well in terms of spelling/phonology predictability for its learners yet does away with gender and other such complications. Anyway I'm waffling. Perhaps I should wage a mental war on governmental ideoligies instead of languages themselves... Ah how I love facebook, the media, the cia, the war on terror and how being image conscious is soooo important.... Did you know coke zero helps you lose weight (not)? Yet it DESTROYS your body! Sense my frustration... sense my distaste for a rediculous world hell bent on power and selling crap by any means necessary? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| drygramul Tetraglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4454 days ago 165 posts - 269 votes Speaks: Persian, Italian*, EnglishC2, GermanB2 Studies: French, Polish | Message 15 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
Besides business, science and travel, it's almost universal in the european metal music scene. We have folk, black or viking metal bands that sing in English, which is kind of a contradiction, so that I have a very hard time finding German singing metal bands. I don't listen to pop music, so I don't know about that, but sure many songs at the Eurovision song contest are English spoken, although that's an official language in just a couple of countries. And in Germany they use often English expressions or words in everyday news or programs. More than Italy for sure. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4608 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 16 of 176 29 May 2014 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
In Europe, more books are published in German than in any other language. France has a very strong film industry (which makes inroads in non-Francophone countries) and the Spanish language music scene is huge. In South Africa, publications in Afrikaans still sell strongly. Not everything is geared towards English. Sure, English does big business worldwide but there are other significant markets where product can thrive. Focussing on a tighter area might even bring greater rewards than an already-saturated English-speaking market. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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