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Hours of listening to fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| kerateo Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 5645 days ago 112 posts - 180 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English, French Studies: Italian | Message 25 of 37 09 July 2014 at 6:37am | IP Logged | ||
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I once met an israeli girl who spoke perfect Spanish with mexican accent. She had never
been outside Israel except for the time I met her in Brazil. I was very surprised by her level, I even think that her Spanish was way better than her English. When I asked her how she did it she told me that she watched A LOT of mexican telenovelas. Nothing else. I guess that not everyone would have the same results after watching during same number of hours (thousands?)telenovelas, not because of aptitude, but because of form. She would probably watch the same episodes again and again until she learned the dialogues and could shadow them with the characters,and after learning a few thousand lines the language would just come out naturally. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5967 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 26 of 37 09 July 2014 at 6:37am | IP Logged | ||
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In the US there are plenty of immigrants who can probably understand everything (barring some less-frequently
used words, but that goes for native speakers too), but always speak haltingly and with a lot of mistakes. Thought I think that's probably from having to speak English too soon in 'survival' situations, or from learning from non- native speakers or text books in their home countries. My friend said, "I have accent, but my ears don't have accent." Edited by glidefloss on 09 July 2014 at 6:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6908 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 37 09 July 2014 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||
I've been reading in Norwegian (and Danish) for a while, but I'm not sure I'm be able to speak Norwegian (or Danish). I don't know how much Swedish exposure Fasulye has had but we had conversations in Berlin when she spoke Danish and I Swedish. I don't think I could speak either of the languages unless I sat down and shadowed an audiobook or two - but after that, I'm convinced that I'd have decent active skills. Edited by jeff_lindqvist on 09 July 2014 at 10:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5429 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 28 of 37 09 July 2014 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | ||
One minute here. There is no doubt that telenovelas, movies and television in general are an excellent source of input in Spanish general. But "nothing else" is a bit hard to believe. There's a huge difference between what I call passive listening and active watching television. I suspect that if we scratch a bit below the surface that the young lady put a lot of effort into actually learning the language using telenovelas. She didn't exactly just watch thousands of hours of telenovelas and suddenly one day started speaking perfect Spanish. It doesn't work that way. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5206 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 29 of 37 09 July 2014 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've met lots of people who've learnt to speak great English as a foreign language in
their own country and claim to have done so "just by watching lots of films/series". Like s_allard I'm really not sure that they're telling the full story and indeed if I probe further it often turns out that they've also studied English at some point, perhaps at school. We all know that school language teaching isn't great, but it's better than nothing and watching series with even some basic high-school knowledge would be much more productive than doing so with none. On the other hand it does help convince me of the benefits of lots of input, although personally I find that lots of speaking practice is still also a necessity. Edited by garyb on 09 July 2014 at 3:08pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4443 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 30 of 37 09 July 2014 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | ||
There are a lot of factors involve that can affect a person's fluency. Part of learning a language is to master grammar rules, vocabulary and be able to apply words & phrases in the local context. The other part is to be able to reproduce the sounds of a language reasonably well. This is like a singer who is able to sing a song "in-tune". Knowing words & phrases is 1 thing, but being able to carry on a conversation in a social setting is another. Someone who watches thousands of hours of TV will be more fluent when compared to somebody who had taken language classes but does nothing else to increase the exposure to a language. I know someone who went to Taiwan on a 3 month exchange program in the summer for Mandarin. That person even spent a week living with a native family. Many years later her fluency in Mandarin is still very basic. Besides knowing a few phrases, she has no ability to write Chinese characters. Obviously living in the US, she hasn't made a lot of efforts to listening to radio or TV programs in Mandarin. Now the lady is taking Spanish classes but again doesn't get into watching TV in Spanish although programming is available in the US. In the past year alone I've watched 9 movies in Mandarin but only 2 in English. There are Chinese language shows from Mainland China and Singapore I'd be watching at any given time. Whether watching TV & listening to the radio alone is sufficient to achieve a high level of language fluency is debatable but the benefit is undeniable. Edited by shk00design on 09 July 2014 at 5:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5967 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 31 of 37 09 July 2014 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'd like to make a guess that L-R is about 10 times faster than input that is not totally comprehensible. Input will
work, but LR will work faster. Input can work, but sometimes it doesn't: anime watchers, but do they really watch enough? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4443 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 32 of 37 09 July 2014 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | ||
I know what you mean. When it comes to Chinese, there is a lot of foreign names of places and people that get translated phonetically. It takes a while to filter through the words & phrases that are in the Chinese language and those that are translated versions of proper names. I find that some broadcasters on radio have a tendency to turn a half-hour news broadcast into a 20m news brief by talking fast. And there are a lot of short-forms of various words and phrases such as: 北大西洋條約组织 for NATO shortened to 北約 (2 characters) or 欧洲联盟 for the European Union shortened to 欧盟. Some of the time after a word / phrase that may not be familiar was said, you have to take a few second to think about what was said. And don't forget there are words and phrases used locally in 1 region that may not be common in another. The other day I came across a show featuring foreigners in China: 《外国人在中国》. There was a term that came up "北漂". This is a term specific for people from other places living in Beijing without a permit. If you are not from Beijing, you may not know what this term refers to. In Singapore, the Chinese community often interchange the term "冲凉" with "洗澡" to take a bath. In Hong Kong they also use this term 冲凉 but in China and Taiwan not at all. I am sure Spanish have variations in different places like the difference between France and Quebec French. I can make a list of terms used in China vs. Taiwan like the ones between UK English & American English: 空调 ～ 冷气 (air conditioning) 航天员 ～ 太空人 (astronaut) 自行车 ～ 脚踏车 (bicycle) 出租车 ～ 计程车 (taxi) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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