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REAL multi-languages fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 81 of 102 25 September 2014 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes. I do. Welcome to the world, where not everybody agrees with you, or cares about your credentials. The reason I posted it is because I suspect you of dodging a ban under another account. But hey, if you've stopped trolling be my guest, your posts indicate the same old false rhetoric and poor analogies though! 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 82 of 102 25 September 2014 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Despite coming from the UK, a country where monolingualism is by far the norm, I have encountered an overwhelmingly positive reaction when I tell people I'm interested in languages. I've long since lost count of the number of times I've heard folk wistfully exclaim "I wish I'd paid more attention in French classes in school". Language classes can be found in almost every town and city on this island and many people do seem to like the idea of being able to communicate in another language.
But of course, most people who give it a shot quickly back off when they realise the amount of work involved. Not a major criticism on my part, I have exactly the same attitude towards the guitar. Another interesting phenomenon is that when I tell people I'm married to a native speaker of German, their retort is often along the lines of "ah, that explains everything. No wonder you are fluent. You just picked it up...." etc etc. If only it had been that simple. Having regular access to a native speaker is of course a fantastic resource, but you still have to learn the language. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4532 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 83 of 102 25 September 2014 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
When I first moved from Australia to the USA I was surprised that I had to learn to re-pronounce various words to be understood. I had trouble ordering coffee in a Starbucks ("I'd like a coffee, please." "Sorry sir, what do you want??") and beer in a supermarket ("Where is the beer?" "What do you want?" "Beer!" "Sorry, what do you want??" "I want to drink a beer" etc). The problem with coffee is that it's got quite a different pronunciation between the British and USA standard forms. The Australian 'r' is soft, so words like "beer" and "iron" just sound more like "bee" and "ion" to US speakers, where their 'r' is much stronger to my ears. So it can be the case that a native speaker has to adjust their accent to be understood by another native speaker for the same language in certain circumstances. I think the reverse - a US speaker traveling to Australia - would have less difficulty as Australians are exposed to lots of US tv/movies/music. However, my aim was never to sound American, just enunciate words well enough enough that I could get my caffeine/alcohol fix relatively easily and iron my shirts when staying at a hotel. And that's exactly what I would want from L2 speakers. I want them to enunciate words in a manner I can understand, but not to such an extent that their original accent is invisible. ------------ To answer the original question: zero. Though I hope eventually to speak German at C2 level, though I agree with others that this is ten year project. Edited by patrickwilken on 25 September 2014 at 5:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Donaldshimoda Diglot Groupie Italy Joined 4089 days ago 47 posts - 72 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Russian | Message 84 of 102 25 September 2014 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
sure you're right, but why don't do things properly? Accent is an integral part of the language so I think one should try to "sound like",to acquire that peculiar feature...If you speak french,english or whatever language you're studying without even trying to adapt your tone,to change your voice to be as close as possible to how it should sound, you're not putting 100% into what you're doing. It's like playing guitar just with the pick and not with the fingers...you could play,you could be an amazing guitar player but you're missing something... Edited by Donaldshimoda on 25 September 2014 at 6:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 85 of 102 25 September 2014 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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On an acoustic, yes. On an electric guitar... I just find finger-picking annoying, sorry.
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| Donaldshimoda Diglot Groupie Italy Joined 4089 days ago 47 posts - 72 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Russian | Message 86 of 102 25 September 2014 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
what about chicken-picking? :D 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 87 of 102 26 September 2014 at 9:46am | IP Logged | |||||
I think very few people get to the point where their accent is indistinguishable from a native speaker, at least beyond short conversations. That would require massive attention to detail and intensive voice manipulation. The point where natives understand you effortlessly comes way before that and I guess the vast majority settle for fluency with a foreign twang. My second cousin was posted to Germany with the army, he married a local girl and has lived there for the last 35 years. He speaks rapid-fire German with natives in bars but he still sounds like a Scotsman speaking German, albeit in a manner that is totally comprehensible and fluid. Yes, 10 years of total immersion will get you to C2, I'm sure of that. Particularly if you include lots of reading. Edited by beano on 26 September 2014 at 9:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 88 of 102 26 September 2014 at 10:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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Speaking with a better accent is more about knowing the mechanics of pronunciation and
also knowing how to properly intonate in foreign languages. There are so many hidden clues given by tone even in English that you need to be aware of those to not sound foreign, even if you can produce sounds individually. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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