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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| FuroraCeltica Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6867 days ago 1187 posts - 1427 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 25 of 58 16 December 2006 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | ||
TY Spanish is pretty good, but kind of basic. The method is typically a short dialogue, followed by another short dialogue, some listening exercises, a few written exercises (e.g. missing words in a sentence) and maybe some questions. I found TY Improve Your Spanish far better. Lots of long, detailed dialogues, and some good audio clips. They also do a pretty nice CD set called TY Conversational Spanish, which is fairly good for beginners. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 26 of 58 16 December 2006 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | ||
The methodology may vary somewhat from course to course, but I think one wouldn't be too far off in a describing the TY approach as similar to a traditional textbook, but with the recordings of the dialogs and/or some of the exercises in the text made available on the accompanying CD's. You have a graded set of dialogs and perhaps some other reading passages with the grammar systematically and progressively introduced in between these. In addition, a number of exercises are provided. Traditional approach, especially when dialog recordings are available, can be quite effective with a bit of persistence, which is why quite a few people do like the better TY courses despite their somewhat dry flavor. Edited by frenkeld on 16 December 2006 at 10:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jmlgws Senior Member Canada Joined 7104 days ago 102 posts - 104 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Mandarin | Message 27 of 58 17 December 2006 at 8:20am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks to frenkeld and FuroraCeltica. I take it then "TY Instant <Language>" or "TY Conversational <Language>" is the most "basic" level, "TY <Language>" is perhaps a bit less basic, and "TY Improve Your <Language>" is the next level?
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| dmg Diglot Senior Member Canada dgryski.blogspot.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 7013 days ago 555 posts - 605 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch, Esperanto | Message 28 of 58 17 December 2006 at 11:01am | IP Logged | ||
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When I started re-learning French, I picked up a "TY French Grammar". I found it very useful as a refresher -- a little lighter (in tone and physical weight :) than a strict academic textbook, so easily readable on the metro or in a waiting room somewhere. I must have read it through completely 4 or 5 times. I then also picked up the "TY Improve Your French", which I decided I didn't like as much. After discovering the Assimil series, I gave "Improve" away to a Friend (who is currently working his way through FSI French -- I don't think he liked it either :) and decided that "Assimil Using French" was a better use of my time.
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| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6945 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 29 of 58 17 December 2006 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | ||
Their product line has been getting more and more populous and confusing in recent years. You have "TY Beginner XYZ", plain "TY XYZ", "TY Improve Your XYZ", "TY XYZ grammar", "TY XYZ vocabulary", "TY XYZ Conversation", etc. I recall seeing something truly silly recently in a bookstore, along the lines of "TY 2-day XYZ" or some such. If one were to buy all of these for a language, despite the relatively low cost of each product, the combined cost might be better spent elswhere. A serious learner should cut to the chase and examine just their foundational plain "TY XYZ" course for the language of interest. For major languages there are many other alternatives. However, once you step away from French, Spanish, German, and Italian "down" to Dutch, Hungarian, Hindi, etc., where resources may not be as abundant, "TY" may be more competitive. It's always worth asking around about the quality of any particular course, since it can vary significantly from language to language. Edited by frenkeld on 18 December 2006 at 10:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| The Headmaster Newbie United States Joined 6658 days ago 7 posts - 7 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Hindi, French | Message 30 of 58 27 December 2006 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Does anyone have the TY Modern Persian course. I am considering purchasing this as an introduction to Persian and want to make sure that it's worthwhile.
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| daristani Senior Member United States Joined 7146 days ago 752 posts - 1661 votes Studies: Uzbek | Message 31 of 58 27 December 2006 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wouldn't recommend the current TY Modern Persian course; I wrote a long and fairly negative review of it a year or so ago for Amazon, which I've copied here:
---------------------------------------------------- Having started my study of Persian over 30 years ago with the original "Teach Yourself Modern Persian", by John Mace, first published in 1964 and reprinted numerous times since then, I was eager to compare this newly released book by Narguess Farzad with the original. Unfortunately, while apparently more modern, the latest version will likely prove more difficult going for most people trying to learn Persian on their own. The original version featured a bit-by-bit approach, taking 36 pages to introduce the reader to the Arabic alphabet as used in Persian; this book merely provides two charts of the entire alphabet, one for tracing purposes, and then appends a bit over one page of exercises in combining the letters. After that, apparently, you're expected to have it down cold. The approach by Mace was certainly more user-friendly to readers with no background in the alphabet. The book then proceeds at a quick pace; the vocabulary lists can be dauntingly long for learners, and transliteration is used sparingly, sometimes leaving any reader not fully accustomed to the Arabic script at a disadvantage in terms of proper pronunciation. In contrast, the original book by Mace included transliteration for all vocabulary items and example sentences. Farzad's order of presentation is a bit unusual; the present tense of verbs other than "to be" and "to have" is not presented until page 127, for example. I am no longer as innocent of Persian as I was 30-odd years ago, but when I think back to my situation then as a total beginner, the original book by Mace strikes me as being much more suitable for someone working on his/her own to learn Persian. (It is still readily available through used-book channels.) I would thus recommend that people indeed looking for a "Teach Yourself" book for Persian get a copy of the original "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" by Mace, if possible, and then perhaps use the latest "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" by Farzad as a follow-up book to solidify the basics. Another useful book after getting the basics down is "An Introduction to Persian" by Wheeler Thackston, which would likely be fairly hard slogging for most true beginners. -------------------------------------------------- I wrote another commentary on the original TY Modern Persian, which is here: ------------------------------------------------- This book, "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" by John Mace, was first published in 1964 and has been reprinted without substantial changes numerous times since. In mid-2004, it was replaced by an entirely different book, but with the same title, by Narguess Farzad. This review deals with the original book by Mace. As the other reviews below note, the Mace book deals primarily with written, formal Persian, from a grammatical standpoint. It does not contain the latest slang, have any conversational practice, or impart any substantial background on Iranian history, culture, etc. Nonetheless, I think it is still the ideal "starter" book for someone working on his/her own, for the following reasons: -- It has the easiest introduction to the Arabic alphabet (as used in Persian) of any book I know. Lesson one introduces only three letters, and six words written with these, and provides practice on reading and writing these words. Lesson two adds two more letters, and another handful of words, with more practice. In all, the first eleven lessons (36 pages) deal with the alphabet, and with a bit of grammar, allowing the learner to proceed forward in small but sure steps. -- This bit-by-bit approach typifies the book; each lesson is from three to six pages, with clear explanations, easy-to-read examples, and practice exercises that go in both ways (with an answer key in the back). -- Although the Arabic script is used throughout, the vocabulary lists and example sentences also include transliteration, so that the learner is never in any doubt as to the pronunciation (which cannot always be determined from the Arabic script alone). In contrast, the latest "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" book, by Farzad, crams the entire alphabet into just a few short pages, leaving the learner to "sink or swim", and throws so much at the reader in each lesson that I feel anyone without a background in Persian already would likely find it very hard going. In short, although old-fashioned (and with a few small errors as well), this book (the Mace book, that is) in my view provides the easiest way for a truly independent learner to make a good start in Persian. A good follow-up book, with a similar but more up-to-date, more sophisticated and considerably more challenging approach, would be "An Introduction to Persian", by Wheeler Thackston. (Note that John Mace has also recently published a reference grammar of Persian, which is a separate book entirely; it is very useful for an intermediate student, but contains no lessons or exercises, merely a systematic explication of the grammar.) The Mace "Teach Yourself Modern Persian", having been in print for a long time, is still readily available through used book sources, and I highly recommend it to those working on Persian on their own. ----------------------------------------------------- If you read through the reviews on Amazon for both books, you see that opinions vary greatly, with some loving and some hating each of them. I'm fairly opinionated on both of them, and I've set forth the reasons for my opinions in the two commentaries above, but you should check out what others have to say as well. In any event, good luck; Persian is a very fascinating language, and not too difficult to learn on your own with effort. It's easier to pronounce than Arabic, and has a substantially simpler grammar. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| The Headmaster Newbie United States Joined 6658 days ago 7 posts - 7 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Hindi, French | Message 32 of 58 28 December 2006 at 12:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you so much for the advice. I will try to track down the older version of the course. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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