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risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish
| Message 9 of 36 04 October 2007 at 3:10am | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
Learning Icelandic is not damnably hard work. |
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The Icelandic people on the documentary said is was.
Iversen wrote:
By the way I do think that there is something to the hypothesis that Aspergers ('aspies') have some traits that can help them learn languages, such as singlemindedness, patience and independence. |
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Surely singlemindedness and patience are good characteristics for learning anything rather than language learning in particular. What is it about the trait of independence that you consider especially useful for language learning?
Edited by risby on 04 October 2007 at 3:14am
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| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish
| Message 10 of 36 04 October 2007 at 3:40am | IP Logged |
Interesting post, Volte. May I compare ...
Volte wrote:
I've never formally been diagnosed with Aspergers, but I've gotten armchair diagnoses of it a few times, including from people with relevant training to diagnose it. |
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Me too although by my wife rather than anybody qualified.
Volte wrote:
I have an above-average memory for some things |
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I have a phenomenally poor memory for names in particular
Volte wrote:
My IQ is somewhat above average |
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I just scraped through the mensa entry test (2nd percentile)
Volte wrote:
I can definitely be single-minded; I've been programming for over 8 years |
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Me ... programming since 1979. Many of my programming colleagues have poor social skills, are highly intellectual (as opposed to clever and also as opposed to sporty) and can be somewhat obsessive about topics that bore others.
Volte wrote:
Social situations often baffle me to various degrees |
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Me too ... these damn humans are definitely a strange bunch
Bizarrely, I worry about, am embarrassed by and puzzle over, interactions that occurred twenty or thirty years ago.
Volte wrote:
fit the profile quite well |
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Some of the characteristics really fit the bill for me but when I tried the facial expression test I scored about 80% correct whereas aspies would get around 20% and even NTs only about 60%.
I had always thought my brain wasn't wired for language learning but I now realize I simply hadn't found the right technique (bootstrapping with Michel Thomas was the key).
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| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 7150 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto
| Message 11 of 36 04 October 2007 at 4:27am | IP Logged |
risby wrote:
Surely singlemindedness and patience are good characteristics for learning anything rather than language learning in particular. What is it about the trait of independence that you consider especially useful for language learning? |
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I think the trait of independence is the inclination as well as ability to work alone or without supervision. Aspies are generally self-motivated.
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jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6913 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map
| Message 12 of 36 04 October 2007 at 4:30am | IP Logged |
risby wrote:
Iversen wrote:
Learning Icelandic is not damnably hard work. |
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The Icelandic people on the documentary said is was. |
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To me, that sounds more like "Gee, imagine the talent of that guy! He learned our language - one of the most difficult in the world!". There are speakers of any language who say that their native tongue is particularly difficult. While I think that Daniel Tammet is exceptionally good at what he does, I also think that Iversen has strong points.
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6707 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 13 of 36 04 October 2007 at 4:43am | IP Logged |
1) This summer I took up Icelandic as a '6w'-language, i.e. a language that you decided to study for half an hour to one hour daily through a period of 6 weeks. I don't have the memory of Daniel Tammett, and I have still not learnt to speak it fluently, but I can to some degree think in Icelandic, and I can also write it with the help of a dictionary (though I prefer to wait until I feel somewhat better equipped). In short, I have spent enough time with the language to know what I'm talking about, - I don't have to trust a casual remark made by somebody who has just witnessed something quite unexpected and may be prone to exaggerate.
2) I think that independence of mind is a valuable character trait because it allows you not do what your teacher or your text book tells you, but to try out different methods and use those that you yourself feel are the most effective.
Edited by Iversen on 04 October 2007 at 7:28am
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| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish
| Message 14 of 36 04 October 2007 at 8:41am | IP Logged |
Iversen wrote:
1) This summer I took up Icelandic as a '6w'-language, i.e. a language that you decided to study for half an hour to one hour daily through a period of 6 weeks. I don't have the memory of Daniel Tammett, and I have still not learnt to speak it fluently, but I can to some degree think in Icelandic, and I can also write it with the help of a dictionary (though I prefer to wait until I feel somewhat better equipped). In short, I have spent enough time with the language to know what I'm talking about, - I don't have to trust a casual remark made by somebody who has just witnessed something quite unexpected and may be prone to exaggerate.
2) I think that independence of mind is a valuable character trait because it allows you not do what your teacher or your text book tells you, but to try out different methods and use those that you yourself feel are the most effective. |
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1) My point was that DT is exceptional. He does not represent the abilities of most aspies. Arguing about how hard or not it is to learn Icelandic as opposed to other languages is completely beside the point.
2) Again ... independence may be a valuable trait for learning as it allows you to experiment rather than following one guide, but this is not more or less relevant to language learning than any other sort of learning.
The OP posits that aspies have a particular ability to learn languages. Nobody yet has provided any information that corroborates or supports this belief.
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| apparition Octoglot Senior Member United States Joined 6654 days ago 600 posts - 667 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written), French, Arabic (Iraqi), Portuguese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Pashto
| Message 15 of 36 04 October 2007 at 12:28pm | IP Logged |
risby wrote:
The OP posits that aspies have a particular ability to learn languages. Nobody yet has provided any information that corroborates or supports this belief. |
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Fanatic doesn't exclude learning other things in addition to languages. He's posting on a language message board, so it would seem rather odd to say "Aspies learn better" in general, I think.
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| risby Newbie United Kingdom Joined 6342 days ago 30 posts - 34 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Italian, Spanish
| Message 16 of 36 04 October 2007 at 2:33pm | IP Logged |
apparition wrote:
risby wrote:
The OP posits that aspies have a particular ability to learn languages. Nobody yet has provided any information that corroborates or supports this belief. |
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Fanatic doesn't exclude learning other things in addition to languages. He's posting on a language message board, so it would seem rather odd to say "Aspies learn better" in general, I think. |
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What he said was
fanatic wrote:
I don't know about left handers or bi-polars but I believe people with Aspergers have an advantage in learning languages. |
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So, are you saying he meant "an advantage in learning" but, because he was on a language message board, he said "an advantage in learning languages". How odd!
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